I still feel dumb for not knowing that it was Ryan, especially when you were both with me that night. There is no work/life balance in my opinion. We will all notice this more and more as our personal and professional lives converge through social media streams. Facebook is my favorite example of this insane transparency that is our new world. We are friends with managers, teachers, family, friends and more. Our lives are so open now and our work is such an important part of our lives, which is why you better love what you do :)

So is this going to become a Penelope Jr. blog now? Or did I miss that transition a while ago? I may be the only Gen Yer that doesn’t care who you date as long as you have something interesting to say.

I am going to have to sort of disagree with Dan and you here. Some people choose to have work/life balance, others do not. I don’t make any value judgment on people who choose to have or not have work/life balance but to pretend like it doesn’t exist or that it can’t be attained is simply untrue.

Millions of people in this country don’t think much about their job outside of 9-5 (hell, some don’t think about their jobs in that time frame). Millions of others aren’t on Facebook or Twitter and many who are on there aren’t updating their lives every second. So to say it is a myth is ignoring a huge swath of people.

My BlackBerry gets minimal use on the weekends and many weeknights (sometimes it is even out of range). If someone calls about a work issue, I don’t pick up. I’ll check it later. If someone emails, I don’t respond until Monday (or Sunday night after my wife goes to bed).

These are choices I make. They may cost me business but there is a serious opportunity cost of losing time with your loved ones. Last time I checked, I won’t be able to relive my mid to late twenties with my wife after we have children and we’re forty.

If you are happy with working and having to juggle many things, than I am happy too. Some people love that. I like my work and I like doing other stuff with people outside of work. So I guess I strike that mythical balance between liking what they do and enjoying other life activities as well.

Can I just start off by saying thank you god that you finally said it out loud? I’ve been sitting at my laptop, reading your blog and then laughing for a while (“haha, does Healy equal Zeus… if I hassle RP, will he tell… you know their facebook gives it all away…)

Now as for your questions: I want it all but I realize that I cannot have it all and still have my sanity. But I’m also starting to realize that the people who tell me they have it all are not hardwired like I am and do not want the same things. I choose my husband over my career everyday but I also choose to work on starting a business with my husband. To me, that is work/life balance.

For me, I think it’s a sanity/insanity balance – especially if you’re an entrepreneur, business owner, or working for a startup. There is no “5 PM” for those who classify themselves in the above grouping. And with portable worktools (laptops, wi-fi and iPhones), you can work from anywhere, anytime.

But it will drive you crazy.

So you need to find that which keeps you from running headlong towards insanity. Maybe for you it’s working out. Or calling your mom. For me it’s running. So, I make sure to run. Then, I work when I need/want to, even if it’s 9 or 12 or 5 hours a day.

Because that’s what it takes.

@ Dan – Don’t worry, we felt stupid for not telling you earlier : ) We really enjoyed hanging out with you and Carla in Boston; you definitely made our time there a blast. I tend to track along the same lines as you – there is no work/life balance, only work/life blur.

@ Lance – I love your comments, because you remind me of the world outside my bubble. I guess I’m a bit envious of the mythical balance. I’m not happy not juggling a lot at once and I have the best days when I’m super productive, exercise, write a blog post and see Ryan all in the same day – ha!

As far as this being a Penelope, Jr. blog… well, I began writing because I was reading both Penelope’s Brazen and Ryan’s EE, and disagreed a lot, thought I had something to add to the conversation. For whatever that’s worth.

@ Dorie – Thanks for your support! I’m relieved that people aren’t burning me at the stake.. yet ; ). I like the comment about being hard-wired differently – I think a lot of achieving your own personal work/life balance is accepting yourself and who you are.

@ Sam – Ah, someone who really understands! Haha. Calling my mom is definitely my sanity-keeper. This idea of doing whatever it takes, that’s my attitude right now. It’s a bit overwhelming at times, but a ton of fun. Thanks for the comment!

Interesting. I’ve never thought of work/life balance. I have the work I get paid for, the work I do b/c I enjoy it and work that gives me satisfaction.
I guess it’s all about the definition of balance and what “work” actually means for you. We all have things we do that may be considered work by someone else (but not “work” by us) – so, I guess it’s more a perspective thing?

Here is the funny thing about work/life balance. The people who don’t have it talk about it, about wanting it, but we are usually also the people who “work well under pressure” or thrive when we are busy. And are really, truthfully, quite miserable when things are “balanced.” Because really, that means we aren’t doing anything at that given moment, because isn’t that what balance means? Having some time when we are working and some time when we are not?

Here’s a question I have been asking myself a lot lately: where is the light at the end of the tunnel? Because every day has all this possibility, and my ideas are virtually endless, so even given all the time in the world, still, there wouldn’t be enough time to get it all done. So maybe it’s not that light I am after, after all. Because I am the kind of person who always wants to be moving, exploring, learning, growing.

So I think right now, I’m really trying to focus, like you said, on letting that go sometimes. All the expectations and to-dos and goals. Just for a few moments every day. A few hours on the weekends.

Really, in the end, I’m learning it’s not so much about balance as it is about being satisfied.

And the beauty of that is, it’s something that is actually well within my control. :)

“Balance” in the traditional sense of the word is a myth, much like unicorns and healthy fast food menus. Since my wife and I met, it’s been a non-stop ride of changing priorities, responsibilities, and numerous other actions that take my time. The idea of balance would begin to make sense perhaps if you were single and independently wealthy, and had no one or nothing else making demands on your time. But the reality is that most of our time is spent doing things we’d rather not do, and what little bit of time we can carve out for ourselves is where we have to decide what matters, and go from there.

When thinking about balance, remember the idea of weight. You’ve got to apply a weighting to everything. What you’ll probably see is that the important things rise to the top, and the rest fall off without much notice. If I get to spend some time with my wife at the expense of 5 pounds, I’d call that a win.

And on a side note, I had no idea that Ryan = Zeus was even a secret anymore. Seriously. I guess seeing ya’lls parents tag each other on facebook pictures kinda answered that.

I had a feeling that Ryan was Zeus…maybe you had left some hints at some point?

I can’t speak for work/life balance when it comes to a startup, but I can speak from a “Big4″ perspective where many people also believe its non-existant.

As Lance mentioned, balance is a choice you make. I know many people who constantly work 70 hours a week. I do not. I definitely prioritize my relationships/personal time and I still do quite well. Could I have been promoted sooner? Doubt it, but maybe. That’s no longer my priority though. We’re in a society that lives to work when you should be working to live.

Raven beat me to it, but that’s the other question: how do you define “work”?

@Tiffany – I really like your question about “the light at the end of the tunnel” I’ve been struggling with that lately as well.

I mean, at what point can things slow down? I’m similar to a person Sam described… I feel the best when i’m busy all day long. …and my girlfriend hates that. I tell her that it’ll payoff in the long run. But when does that point come?

@Rebecca – One thing I’ve been working on this year is, when we have time together, being 100% focused on her. I used to watch a movie and play on my computer at the same time. That just annoyed her.

So now, when we spend time together, it’s 100% about hanging out. No phone calls or emails or surfing online. My attention is focused solely on her. If found that we might spend less time together, but she’s happier with me.

BTW – I wondered with the announcement would finally come. :)

@ Raven – That’s a great point. I don’t consider my job “work” in the sense that I “have” to do it and it’s such a struggle. I love it. But I definitely could work 15 hours a day and have no boyfriend. I think Ryan could equally do the same. But we make compromises to see each other because it’s important. Thanks for the perspective : )

@ Tiffany – Love the idea of being satisfied. Life is crazy right now, but I do feel an immense amount of satisfaction – probably more so than I have in years. And what a fun balance that is!

@ Norcross – Unicorns aren’t real? What! Okay, but seriously this idea of weighting is important. But what if you weigh things equally? The five most important things in my life are my family/friends, Ryan, my job, my blog and my body (exercise). I love them all, but it’s frustrating to give them all equal weighting.

And yes, some people think this is old news. But the email I got was saying that I should be explicit since I occasionally write about BC. I agreed. Thanks for the comment – haven’t seen you on Modite in awhile!

@ Ian – I’ve never tried to keep it a secret, but I’ve never been explicit either. Interesting quote about a society that “lives to work when we should be working to live” – I think Gen Y just lives first. But yes, it’s all about how you define work and if you enjoy it and what your goals are. Thanks for pulling several viewpoints together!

@ Andy – Your girlfriend and you sound a lot like Ryan and I. I often complain his mind is on BC (and he admits it!) when we hang out. But he’s done a great job of focusing. Now, next time you come to Madison bring your girlfriend so we can double-date ; )

@ Rebecca – I’ve been missing on a lot of places lately. Been too busy to breathe. And that somewhat ties into what I’m referring to. What little time I have, I spend it (1) with my wife and son, (2) with a few close friends, (3) trying to flesh out my side business. While I’d love to do more, I just can’t right now, and I have no problem or guilt in admitting that.

But to answer your question: you can’t weigh everything equally. If everything is equal, then they’re not weighted at all. Remember, giving something a higher weight doesn’t mean that other things are not important, just that they’re less important in the grand scheme of things.

Hi Rebecca, loved the post. I think it actually illustrates one of my central tenets of work-life balance: WLB is personal.

Everyone will have a different ideal balancing point depending on what is important to them. The key is to truly discover what each person’s point is, and ensure that our actions are communicating this. If our ideal balance is a 9-5 with no work intrusions outside of that and that’s what you do, then great. If it’s the “blend” or “blur” and that’s what you’ve got, then great. However, if you’re looking for more time with family and you’re spending all your time at work (or vice versa) then you’re sending the wrong message to others, and more importantly to yourself.

That’s also the challenge with the “light at the end of the tunnel” approach mentioned above. If this is the plan, then it’s key to actually have a plan for reaching that light, rather than just riding the train until things slow down. if that’s the route you take, then you’ll quickly find out that you’ve missed the stop and have blown by your goals.

Just saw Norcross’s comment above the comment box, and have to say that this is a key point as well. Balance doesn’t mean you spend an equal amount of time everywhere, but rather that you’ve reached a point where the various aspects of your life are in an equilibrium that is satisfying to you.

Thanks for sharing!

Adam

My dad used to always quote whoever it was that originally said it, “Nobody ever said on their death bed they wish they’d spent more time at the office.” But he is a Baby Boomer, and the thing about Gen Y-ers (as I see it from my Gen-X perch) is that you already inherently get this. You guys work smarter vs harder (not to imply you don’t work your asses off, it’s just that you place a premium on personal time that previous generations just didn’t.) I think balance really is key to anything, and it only gets more complicated as we age. As we add more people to our equation (ie kids) and it becomes more difficult to convince ourselves that our time is more “important” than theirs, etc. It’s hard.

But I have faith in you. :)

Work life balance is tough, especially if you want a lot of things. For example, you say, “I want the career, the relationship, the blog, the time to exercise and hang out with my friends and call my family.”

I really resonate with Lance and Ian, and agree that it’s all about choices. I recall working out in the mountains of Colorado and there’s droves of people that “quit the corporate rat race” and now choose to live a simpler life just skiing and doing what they enjoy. By the world’s standards, they might be less “successful” because they make less money but overall they are happy.

This post reminds me of another principle that I learned from a company in Fort Collins. They teach their agents the following, “Wherever you are, be there. 100%. If you’re with your family or friends,don’t be somewhat listening, or somewhat distracted. Set the boundaries so that you can give your full attention to the matter at hand.” Our lives can easily overwhelm us with the barrage of information constantly coming across all spectrums.

Good luck with the WLB, I’m trying to figure it out as well.

Wow, I have to say I really admire you for putting yourself out there and letting everyone know what’s going on in your personal life. I personally would be too afraid to be that transparent on the web. I think it’s a great step to take.

And I do think everyone has a different work/life balance. I don’t think there is any one perfect schedule since everyone is so different and has such different priorities in life. For me, it’s important that I enjoy what I’m doing and want to engage in it during the weekdays. But at the same time, I’ll need time on weeknights and weekends to relax and forget all about what’s on my mind, and spend significant time with my friends, family, and loved ones. I think I need that break sometimes to clear my head, and it makes me more productive when I am working hard.

There is a balance – but it comes with sacrifice. You can’t have it “all.” But when you find the balance, you just don’t care anymore.

My husband and I were talking about some friends of ours who are teetering on the edge of commitment – neither one of them wants to make demands on the other, and neither one of them wants to give up their awesome career tracks. So, they’ll split, be alone, possibly wealthy, and wonder why they are not fulfilled. Well, I’m guessing – because some people are really happy with lots of money, let’s not underestimate that! Mike and I have no problem saying what we want and need from each other, even if it means one of us will have to “give up” something we think we really want or need. Putting someone else first is really refreshing, actually. It feels more purposeful than my old hedonistic pursuits.

So, I can only speak from my own experience. As my life and options have arguably shrunk – (no car, no job, stay at home wife, focusing on school, putting marriage and family first) I have only felt my happiness expand. I concur w/ Dorie on how having limits on one’s life can actually make it feel more expansive. I always think of this quote a great friend of mine said, “How narrowly you define your success is how vastly you define your failure.” If I kept saying to myself, “Only X will make me happy.” I was excluding the rest of the alphabet – and it has a lot of letters. Today I’m more apt to say, “A-L, P, Q, and X will make me happy.” By widening what I’ll call “success,” I’m so much happier.

That’s balance.

Here’s something else, R. My husband and I are both very driven and busy in our time outside of work. He’s an illustrator trying to break into the comic book industry, so we’re both that creative type who always has new ideas and is always in motion.

So it’s complicated when you both are battling that guilt over what you are doing about your time. But I’m also learning how to lean on this as a strength, because we can learn from ourselves and from watching each other. And to listen to him when he has insight into my habits. Becuase he has my best interests at heart.

So I guess what I’m trying to say is, it’s good that you guys are talking about these things, phone warfare or not. Because you have to learn, in a relationship, to rely on each other, to listen to each other, to call each other out when it’s necessary, and to love in a way that has that person’s best interests at heart.

Because we can’t always see what we are doing to ourselves in the process of living up to our own expectations. But you can trust someone who loves you enough to hold a mirror up to your habits for you. In fact, probably, those are the people you should love and trust the most.

I sense a great weight has been lifted off your shoulders so congratulations to both of you.
Now, after reading “… because I’m so superstitious” I am reminded of a post about psychics in Madison.
Are there any psychic readings in your future?

@ norcross – I really don’t want to weight things differently. They’re all so important to me, but I totally understand where you’re coming from and that it’s necessary to do that to keep your sanity! ; )

@ Adam – I certainly respond more to a “blur” type of definition more than any other and I enjoy that. I think sometimes my challenge is realizing that it is my personal approach and I should be okay with that. Thanks for the comment!

@ maggie, dammit – Thanks so much for the support. Although I don’t like hearing that it’s more complicated as I get older, it’s interesting that these challenges are so universal.

@ Josh – I am doing what I love, but it’s challenging nonetheless. Working at Alice is my ski life. I like the idea of being 100% present though in whatever you do. I could use some practice on that! Thank you for your perspective – it always challenges me a bit : )

@ Akhila – Thanks so much! It’s easier obviously, since Ryan is in the blogosphere as well and so he understands. And I’m with you for the break part! Speaking of, have you seen Kit Kat’s new website? – http://tr.im/fmcc

@ Milena – Love the honesty – I do realize I have to compromise. I also think that one of my realiziations in making it work with Ryan with our crazy schedules is that I’m now thinking “I choose us.” I think that’s a corny quote from a movie, but I’m realizing it’s the only way to truly be fulfilled. I’m rambling a bit, but thanks so much for your comment. I really use you and Mike as a model for my relationship : )

@ Tiffany – Thanks for making me feel better : ). My strength and weakness in my relationship is my ability to communicate – and I agree it’s so important to learn from each other. As an aside, I didn’t know that’s what your husband did – very cool!

@ Mark W – I do feel a weight lifted, thanks! And I definitely should visit the psychic again soon… : )

@ Rebecca – to be honest, I didn’t want to weight things differently, either. But sooner or later, things start to weight themselves. Don’t give enough to the relationship, it ends up failing and then there’s nothing there to give weight to. Same goes for career, personal health, and everything else. My weightings change all the time (sometimes daily!) so by no means to they have to be static.

As an “outsider looking in” on the Brazen/Gen Y community, I had not yet put it together that you guys were an item! That’s so great! You guys are like a Blogging Power Couple :D

I think the key to finding a balance is to avoid going on autopilot. There isn’t a magic ratio, it’s just being present to your own needs and those of the people around you.

You both seem engaged with life, not wanting to settle for ‘getting by’ or surviving, and I think it is that shared trait that is going to help you two navigate the work life balance issue.

If anything, I’ve learned that I need to pay better attention to About pages :)

H,
I found your blog a day or two ago – good stuff.
I have some thoughts regarding relationship and WLB.
Something I learned in one particularly painful lesson at a final review in architecture school is that there may be some system, or grid, or method that is used to create a design (or a life, or a career) that is understandable. This is incredibly boring unless there is something else the grid or process is subject to.
In other words, if the grid dominates all, then it will be boring. If there is something the grid yields to and is subject to then there is the possibility of something more delightful.
One suggestion I have is yielding to love.
Recently someone suggested to me that I be normal. I recommend it and it comes in trial sized versions. Normal, whatever that is for you, is where there is enough ease for unexpected things to open up and provide nourishment. It seems to me that people who are afraid of being normal are often afraid there is something wrong they need to fix; with god, with life, with career,… It won’t end.

You can have it all, just not all at the same time. :-)

I think the problem people make when they talk about work/life balance is to think that it is a great thing. I see my job as a recruiter as a life style. I drive my kids crazy sometimes when we are out for dinner and I start talking to the waitress about if she like what she is doing, what is her dream job etc. I am fortunate, I own my business, I can set my own hours (which tend to be too long) but I also am able to take time off during the day to spend time with friends or go to a movie.

The whole life/work balance thing has gotten easier for me as I have gotten older.My husband and I went through a period when we were both unemployed – talk about survival. It taught us a lot of lessons, the most important one being as long as we had each other, the rest was just frosting on the cake. When you get down to the basics- at the end of the day, our lives are about people – those we love and those who love us. When you look at the world through that lens, it makes things simpler.

As a Mom, I have to add, you need to find time to exercise, it helps with your stress and will make you feel better. Have Ryan exercise with you.

I like what one of the really early commenters said — I think the whole concept of balance is this myth that we’re constantly chasing. How do you even define work-life balance? How do you know when you have it? Would you even know? Would your life be that much better if you reached that perfect state of equilibrium? I totally believe in having it all if you want it all. And I think you can make the time for everything you want…but no one ever said it was easy. Plus, you’re right that uncertainty is a whole lot more fun than balance. Learning to embrace that, I think, makes everything easier.

And everyone else is right. The Facebook pictures kind of gave the secret away a long, long time ago :)

@ Norcross – That makes more sense. I was thinking that you had everything ranked. My priorities certainly change daily, maybe even hourly? ; )

@ Marie – Haha, Ryan will love that you said that. I definitely don’t want to settle and I think we’re both looking to constantly improve and be better people. This is good – we constantly work on our relationship – and bad, I think too – sometimes we don’t just sit and enjoy each other’s company.

As an aside, I really enjoy your blog and am always combing it for interesting nuggets I can use in my own love life : )

@ rm – I’m glad you like my blog – I hope you become a regular commenter, because I just love what you said. First, I have a design background, so I can totally relate to the grid theory, and the idea about “yielding to love” seems so powerful. Indeed, I often think that’s my problem; I’m not able to let others in close enough. And yes, I need to try to be normal more often and realize that’s okay. Here I go rambling again… anyway, thanks for the comment! : )

@ Christine – Thanks for sharing your story – it’s great to hear how others build a life they enjoy. Also, Ryan does exercise and is always wanting me to come along, but I never do. Ugh, I suppose now I have to try it at least : )

@ Nisha – Thanks for the comment! “I think you can make the time for everything you want…but no one ever said it was easy” is my favorite piece of what you said. Easy is boring anyway : ). And yes, we thought people would just figure stuff out from Facebook, but we’re not friends with all of our readers on there ; )

I enjoyed the article.

I will say that though in the future, I caution you about writing blog posts that can begin with “I just got off the phone with ____, and I’m angry.” Those are the ones that can get your personal brand in alot of trouble.

Keep up the writing!

Responding to your tweet and comments:
If the question is balance, we have to know what we’re balancing. We all know what the work component is: we have job descriptions, and work hours and work demands. What we’re not so good at is defining what the life component is. Maybe if we took time to write our own “life description” we would do a better job at balancing the two.

Just remember, though, that no one ever does everything in their own job description while doing a whole lot more that’s outside of it.

@ Rebecca – just like any other ranking system, they change as new info becomes available. What is #1 today might not be tomorrow. That’s OK, because it could be #1 again next week. But for me, the important thing is not being too static in that #1 has to be #1, and thus not being able to change as needed. I guess my priorities have become more…fluid?

Granted, some of that became a lot easier after we had a child. It was easy to see that spending time with my son was more important that going to the gym.

Hey Rebecca! It’s Brian from the French House long ago.I’ve read your blog quite a few times and just wanted to chime in. I now work as a political consultant/speechwriter in NYC and I think what you say is intriguing, but doesn’t really reflect how many people work these days.

By way of explanation, I work maybe 60+ hours a week with my butt either in an office chair, conference room, or airplane seat, leaving few hours for much else. I do not have a work-life balance, and to be honest I’m really happy.

What makes it different (and enjoyable) for me is that I have friends who keep similar schedules and have similar lifestyles. No friend of mine begrudges me for planning to meet for dinner at 9:30 at night or breakfast at 7:00 AM, it’s just what works for us both.

I also am blessed with a very kind, understanding girlfriend who forgives the particularities of this kind of life. Sure, she’s about ready to dropkick my BlackBerry out the window at times, and 7AM conference calls taken in bed are hardly enjoyable for her, but my work life has yet to interfere in our overall happiness. By contrast, my ex didn’t get it. In her mind, 5 PM was when people stopped working and got angry at me for every call I took or e-mail I answered in her presence.

I guess what I’m saying is that I think it’s all about managing expectations. My friends and family know what they are getting into. And I think working for clients who themselves have no work/life balance requires that you do the same and to try to tell someone on the other end of the phone, that sorry, you did not take their call because you were at dinner/a movie/the park seems a little unrealistic to me. I mean, they pay the bills after all? You have to accommodate clients when they need you. Just my experience.

Rebecca, I feel like I am in your shoes. A) Yes, I’m a woman B) I’m also an ENFP and C) my boyfriend that I’m not in a Facebook relationship with (because those who know us, know the truth) is the practical to my impractical. Not to mention, we both work in start ups. We’re both passionate about our careers, Generation Y savvy and unfortunately now, don’t live in the same city. Wow, what kind of pressure this puts on a relationship. But we’ve made it work and we see each other and thanks to technology, can connect a lot more frequently than when letters just existed.

With that being said, we constantly struggle with the work/life balance. As part of our relationship it’s important to support the other in our work endeavors but how do you appear not ‘needy’ or make the extra compromise for each other when work requires 11+ hours of your day, you want to work out and have time for friends/family? I’m not sure if it quite exists, but I’m pretty sure it can be created if its worth it to you.

I like your four rules:
1) Let go.
2) Give in.
3) Smile.
4) Repeat.
I’m going to hold them with me and it’s good to hear another voice out there, in a similar situation. Thanks!

@ Joe S – Thanks for the cautionary tale! Although I write so much about my personal life that if anyone judged me by one sentence, it’s probably someone I don’t want to know anyway ; )

@ Norcross – Ah, but I work with someone that believes going to the gym is more important because you have to take care of yourself first. To each his own, to each his own : )

@ Brian – Fabulous to hear from you and thanks so much for taking the time to comment. I actually so, so agree with you and I’m disappointed this didn’t come through in my post. I very much believe in the concept of work/life blur and I think your point about managing expectations is a good one. Appreciate you sharing your story!

PS – Your job sounds AWESOME! : )

@ Grace – Well, okay, so my first question is who is your boyfriend? (You can email me the answer ;). ENFPs should definitely unite. Maybe have our own Oprah show online (she’s an ENFP too, you know)? It really is great to hear of someone in such a similar situation; it gives me courage for the challenges that lie ahead, so thank you!

What a surprise! I had no idea! I can completely relate to not only trying to balance work/life but also trying to navigate a work relationship and a ‘outside life’ relationship that accompanies dating someone you work with (or used to work with in your case). I say congratulations!

I don’t agree with some of the comments above. I like being available on the weekends. That doens’t mean that I spend my entire weekend working but if I see an important email on my blackberry, from a producer or university professor that, let’s face it at this stage in my career I’m lucky to be working at that level with, I respond. I show them that I’m happy to clear any questions they might have up or look at a document. When that’s done I go right back to whatever leisure activity I was doing.

This doesn’t make me feel like my blackberry owns my life. Instead, it makes me feel like I can integrate work and life successfully and I’m proud of myself for putting that little bit of ‘work’ effort in on the weekend.

And btw don’t worry, exercise is always the first to take the hit in my life also! If it’s a choice between grabbing a coffee with a friend after work and going to the gym I’ll pick friends every time!

Congratulations on another great post. I love reading them.

Rebecca, love, love, love the very first comment by @Lance. It’s the paydirt.

So since I’ve interviewed you and written about you I can say like a bad mom wagging her finger in a snorkely high pitched voice, “I told you sooo.” Even though I did no such thing.

Balance isn’t a myth. How we define balance is the myth. It’s not some utopian stasis, or plate spinning equilibrium. It’s choices. Making consistent choices that honor what you value, and making sure that what’s REALLY important to you shows up in your everyday life.

Yep, some things will have to go bye-bye. It’s NOT choosing that causes all the stress.

So here’s the tweak in perspective: Currently it sounds like, “Uh oh, I want all these things, and I don’t want to give up any of them.” But what if it’s just an alignment conversation. Getting in the same groove, making agreements, talking about timelines, and giving yourself a foundation for your possibility perch?

How might things line up if you pedal out to the 10,000 foot view. That’s where the possibility perch really is.

Could it have something to do with the C-Word?

K. So. Done finger wagging. You’re free to go.

:-)

Work/life balance is impossible if either is dictated by someone else. What I mean by that is if you work for someone who doesn’t give you a lot of independence (or work for someone at all, really), you’ll always be working at their pace to keep them happy. Not to say their pace can’t be close to yours, but it isn’t likely. I like to work as hard as the next person, but working and not wasting time have to go hand in hand. If you work for yourself, you know what your next steps are, you know where you fuck up and you know what you’ve done in the past and how you can correct it.

Take that whole bit and apply it to life as well. Whenever you live at someone else’s pace, you’re bound to constantly trying to strike a balance between what you can control and what you cannot control. That’ll drive you nuts.

And on a side note, I only know you and Ryan through Brazen and social networking, but I’m happy for both of you and that you’ve come out about the relationship on here. It takes guts!

@Rebecca-
So funny, because my boss calls me a “future life coach,” and Oprah is one of my favorites. When working the Democratic National Convention in Denver this year, I saw her because I was helping to run the VIP Suites at Invesco Field. On that note…I’ll e-mail you some other details about ENFP’s, boyfriend’s and life of course.

I might have something to add to the discussion, but I can’t fathom reading through all these comments. I made it to Andy’s.

I mentioned you and Ryan dating in my top blog posts. Was it not common knowledge then? Oops.

I will say that this particular line rang so true to me, “If you’re playing it right, the best time in your life is filled with uncertainty and risk.”

Also, I wish that I could put all the people that have commented on this post in a bar, with a lot of alcohol and just talk about who knows what all night. What a great group of people/thinkers/influencers that will continue to impact the world in big ways.

Ryan

@ Ryan (Stephens) – YES. What a brilliant idea. I wish we could do that too :)

[...] a potential romance. It all sort of… crumbles… when my mind is on work. Others strive for balance. I strive. And, I [...]

[...] Thorman and Ryan Healy let out a public announcement about their relationship. In the form of a post on Rebecca’s blog which I thought was fabulous. And really messed up too (but my inner blogger with voyeuristic [...]

@ Marina – Thanks for the kind words and I definitely relate to how your blackberry relationship – ha! : )

@ Lisa – I love your comments. My favorite part is “making consistent choices that honor what you value.” I actually think I am doing that but just not making it okay in my head : ) And please, no talk about the c-word anytime soon…

@ JR Moreau – Thanks for the comment and support. That’s a great point to bring up about living at someone else’s pace. I think because Ryan is an introvert and I’m an extrovert we sometimes define pace differently.

@ Grace – So jealous you saw Oprah. So. Jealous.

@ Ryan S – No problem mentioning it before, we weren’t keeping it a secret. And I’ve been saying to Ryan that they should do a Brazen conference – how awesome would that be!

I loved this. Great writing, and great message. I’ve always searched for a work/life balance, but after reading this, I’ve realized that I probably wont find one. And that’s okay. Life is absolutely like a see-saw, as you say, and it’s much more exciting to move up and down than to stay in one place.

Work/Life balance is difficult. That’s why people talk about it so much. I think it’s also much harder when you’re both involved in start-ups. In some ways your work is your life when you’re trying to start a company.

Another note, having just started dating again myself after a year and a half I find it difficult to fit a boyfriend into my planned schedule. I’m lucky to have a job that only requires 35 hours a week but balancing boyfriend vs. dogs has become a challenge.

I heard Gloria Steinem speak at the California Governor’s Conference in October, and she talked about work/life balance and the notion of “having it all.” She noted that one of the greatest disservices done to the feminist movement was how it somehow got affiliated with the nation that we can “have it all.” And we can’t. No one can. The feminist movement was about giving women the freedom and the choice to pick and choose what is most important to each individual and focus on those aspects. Unfortunately, we’ve been conditioned to believe we have to keep all the balls in the air, when really juggling 3 instead of 5 is fine.

Great post!

With a husband of 14 yrs, 3-year-old, a body that needs constant exercise, and a career, I took one of those “wheel of life” tests and discovered that my “wheel” is far from a perfect circle. Then I realized: who wants a perfect wheel anyway??? We just do the best we can, and live the best life possible. Sometimes the wheel will feel great, and sometimes bumpy, but at least we’re enjoying the ride!

Loved the way you wrote this. I thought Lance’s comment was amusing, too. It did strike me was rather Penelope-esque. I’d hardly call that a bad thing, though.

Good question on work/life balance. I am not really one to give great input on it at this point, since work has been so busy that I haven’t even had a chance to blog (props to you for keeping it up!). I honestly would say I think it depends on the individuals, both in terms of how blurred the work/life lines are, and where the balance is.

In my case, were I at all decent at writing about life compared to work, I’d probably write about it more frequently since my girlfriend enjoys being part of that blur. That, of course, makes it quite easy to have blurred lines of work and life- not all have that. I would agree with Andy (hey man!), though, that most people still need quality time with their s/o. That’s in part why I have at least 2 bedrooms in my place. I want to ensure that my office is my office and my bedroom is my bedroom… otherwise I’ll get even less sleep.

Didn’t read the comments, so I won’t know if this has been said before.

Anyways, Rebecca, there does not have to be a work/life ratio.

Life should just be life, and work should be part of life, not a seperate entity that detracts from your life.

If you start viewing life and work as two seperate things, then you begin to have each side compete with one another, trying to get the most time out of your existence.

If work is not enjoyable, then don’t do it. Find work that is.

For me, work is not work.

Work to me is:

Problem solving, enjoying my surroundings, having conversations, feeling accomplished, making progress, becoming more knowledgeable, understanding myself better, and so on.

I view work as an oppurtunity to expand my abilities and to see more of the world than I saw the day before.

Now, if you’re work is just work, and not enjoyable, not progressive enough, not good enough, not fun enough, then something is wrong.

You have to view what you do as internal, not external.

This way, life and work become one, and you can work however long and hard you want without giving anything up at all.

It is all about what you value, what your vision is, what you believe is right and wrong, and what you think your purpose is.

Your friend Ryan said people who work 12 hours a day and exercise every day have no life.

Well, I work 10-12 hours a day, exercise everyday, and yet still I do not feel it detracts from who I am, only adds.

Because of work I learn about myself. Because of work I learn patience and humility. Because I exercise everday I improve my physical health. Because I exercise everyday I am aware of my body.

But yet I still find time to do what I love and to set the foundation for my future world NOW.

I am a musician, yet my job is to fix F-16s in the Air Force. My job and my love for music are two different things, yet they are both part of who I am and my life. Eventually, I want to have my job simply be music, but that doesn’t mean I will stop trying to progress in life and become a better man.

Time is time, life is life. Work is part of life, not something else.

Rebecca, define who you are, what you want for yourself, what your vision is, and whether or not what you do now everyday is helping you reach the goals you have set.

That’s all from me.

First time visiting the blog, I’d only seen you on BC before that. You do good work. But like reading Penelope, I have the hardest time being as transparent as you all are. It’d probably be a good thing to some degree, but I’m not there. So I envy you folks that are able to really put it out there so explicitly. Well you know and I cringe at the same time.

Nonetheless, added you to my reader. :)

I’m struck by your well-written post and the comments that follow. In determining the work/life balance, I’ve found one image to be very helpful: a farm. Work & life intertwine when you’re on a farm, and you don’t determine the cadence of the organic nature you’re a slave to and a beneficiary of. When you live a life that is filled with some sort of creative passion, an enthusiasm that makes you give up a sense of time, then you’re experiencing something like those farm rhythms in a post-industrial reality. I watch my wife, who balances work, family, children & me, and think of a woman who’s letting the thread of her being connect all those things together.

Work/Life balance is a struggle, no matter how you slice it. In my own life, I juggle a full-time MBA program, a part-time internship, a non-profit committee, and my marriage, plus friends and family. I have to admit–I can’t do it all. I sometimes think about how I have to *schedule* time with my husband, and how depressing it is that my life is overcomplicated in this way. I say, when I finish my MBA, some of this will go away, but that’s not realistic, because I want to climb the corporate ladder all the way…which will be just as hard as earning an MBA, except it takes longer.

Thanks for writing this very personal post; it helps me to process where I am, take a step back and re-evaluate.

I thought Gary Wolter’s comments were appropriate from today’s article.

He says a key question for him has always been “Are you excited to get up and go to work?”

http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/topstories/439076

I respectively but vehemently disagree with the bloggers, many whose musings I revere deeply, that think work/life balance is not a reality. This both saddens and empowers me to wake up each morning and keep doing what I do. I know firsthand that work-life balance begins by shifting one’s mindset from seeing the restrictions to it to exploring the possibilities for it, and realizing that the greatest leaders, including our current president, know that to lead successfully, authentically, and for social impact, one must take care of him/herself first.

I welcome the opportunity to talk further to anyone who feels like s/he simply cannot accomplish all s/he seeks AND have a meaningful personal life (e.g. healthy relationships, exercise, leisure, etc.). If you’re willing to play with a new way of thinking and showing up to your life, I guarantee work/life balance can be yours.

Rebecca, I am just finding your blog (thanks to Valeria Maltoni’s “Conversation Agent”), and I really enjoyed this post – and all the comments here – about work/life balance.

It brought to mind a wonderful PBS interview with artist Janine Antoni, who discusses an art piece called “Touch” that involved learning to walk on a tightrope. She notes in part:

” …it wasn’t that I was getting more balanced, but that I was getting more comfortable with being out of balance. I would let the pendulum swing a little bit further and rather than getting nervous and overcompensating by leaning too much to one side I could compensate just enough. And I thought, I wish I could do that in my life when things are getting out of balance.”

Antoni’s interview and short video of her tightrope walk along the “horizon” of her longtime home is inspiring as it explores so many different perspectives on the state of balance we all strive for. Thanks for a great discussion!

http://www.pbs.org/art21/artists/antoni/clip1.html

[...] alias for myself online so people can’t see the real me? Probably not. Am I going to blog about my personal relationships for the world to see? Probably not. Not to disregard anyone who does – there really is no right or [...]

[...] take Rebecca Thorman, who recently wrote about her long hours and need to do it all, much to the chagrin of her boyfriend. I agree with her that work/life is a myth for most people, [...]

[...] Do it small and awkward first. I practiced my first big speech in front of Ryan. Doing speeches is actually much more difficult in front of people you know. Ryan and I weren’t [...]

[...] blog I was reading recently dealt with the decision to be more transparent and it made me think about my own choice to use pseudonyms.  Only recently did I even decide to [...]

Hi Rebecca,
Nice post. I don’t know much about work-life balance, but I just wrote a post about “work-life bursts”, which are the bursty work demands and bursty life demands that jump out at you and require you to put in work bursts and life bursts to tackle them. Not quite a solution to work-life balance, but hopefully another way to look at the demands for people who want to be successful at both. Good luck handling the bursts!

[...] is, you don’t produce marketing plans, you create connections. You don’t create paintings, you evoke emotion. You don’t deliver newspapers, you spread [...]

[...] met Ryan through his ideas and opinions. I commented on his blog posts and often disagreed. When I started [...]

[...] Gross over-sharing is not encouraging or revolutionary or innovative. You are not absolved because you made what was once private now public. [...]

[...] to separate work and life, especially in the statuesque pursuit of balance, but while I used to recognize and promote blur, I’m now mindful of the distinct delineation between the [...]

The work/ life balance thing is hard and something I struggle with. If things arent right at work then it distracts me at home and vice versa.
I guess things will never be perfect, but I do like the idea of focusing on satisfaction.

For me, being a high-powered exec is more important than being a good parent.

Things cost money. Staying at home doesn’t buy things. Going out there and making as much money as possible is the best thing to do. Everyone wants to live the good life. But the good life costs. So what if you can’t make it to the softball game or the ballet recital! If you are bringing home big bucks, you are doing more for your family than any amount of time will.

A parent that doesn’t make a ton of money is shameful. Kids want iPhones, computers, jeans, sneakers, and other cool stuff. How can a kid be cool if mom or dad only works 40 hours a week but brings home diddley squat? I would rather work a ton of hours and make a ton of money than come home at the same time and sit in the house with a nagging wife and bratty children. A family has to understand that having things is more important than being together. Working less is not an option!