I really like alpha males – Hercules is the latest and perhaps greatest example in my line-up. Johannes is another. But these male leaders are not only a dying, but now an unnecessary breed.
Evolution from an industrial to a knowledge economy realizes the day of Hercules – known for strength, dominance, and authority – as fleeting. “Men could become losers in a global economy that values mental power over might,” Business Week argues. The age of force is over.
Issues of dependence and independence, dominance and subordination are largely irrelevant to how emerging young women see themselves, Harvard psychologist Dan Kindlon argues in his book Alpha Girls. “Generation Y is the first generation that is reaping the full benefits of the women’s movement,” he says. “Women corporate leaders blend feminine qualities of leadership with classic male traits.”
Gen Y women have both masculinity and feminity, developing as the best of both worlds. We balance the typically female feeling part of ourselves with the typically male thinking parts. We are powerful hybrids integrating “the intuitive and rational, the tender and hardheaded, the self-sacrificing and self-serving.”
We utilize a “transformational approach that focuses on building a team. The team approach is less hierarchal than the traditional business model. A girl’s primary goal is not to win but to maintain relationships,” Kindlon says.
The way of the alpha girl is the rallying cry for Generation Y. We disdain complex rules and authoritarian structures.
In contrast, men and boys “base their reasoning on how established rules or laws should be applied, rather than on the feelings of those affected by their decisions,” Kindlon reports. “Male children learn to put winning ahead of personal relationships or growth, to feel comfortable with rules, boundaries, and procedures.”
Men and boys with such personality types are not naturally in tune with other people’s feelings, a key to success in the new economy. Leadership that marshals and directs is often observed by young women as part of the dinosaur age.
Gen Y women will lead the new generation to positive and meaningful change. The ascent of women in the workforce will be unprecedented in history, and promises to have far-reaching implications.
We already see more women than men attaining bachelor’s degrees. In 2005, nearly 59 percent of undergraduates were granted to women. By 2050, it is projected that the degree gap will grow drastically.
Jobs are no different. Business Week reports, that “from last November through this April, American women aged 20 and up gained nearly 300,000 jobs, and American men lost nearly 700,000 jobs.” Research also shows that women who are in management make companies more profitable, even among the Fortune 500.
Roles traditionally filled by men – that of lawyers, doctors and managers – are seeing an influx of women. Other male-dominated industries such as manufacturing and construction seem to be perpetually in downturn, while women are found concentrated in upcoming and thriving industries such as education and healthcare.
As men are being hemorrhaged in blue-collar, white-collar, and gold-collar jobs, young women are picking up the slack, becoming both the providers and the glue for families.
The new economy is largely dominated by young women who have unique skills, not by men who have been taught to follow the rules.
“Men are less suited than women to the knowledge economy, which rewards supposedly female traits such as sensitivity, intuition, and a willingness to collaborate,” reports Peter Coy in Business Week. “Men have tended to do better in the hierarchies, following orders and relying on positional power.”
Young men then, seemingly devoid of the meaning and opportunities that once defined them, are left in a prolonged state of adolescence. And this limbo doesn’t bring out the best in young men, columnist Kay Hymowitz argues.
“Men feel threatened by female empowerment,” Hymowitz states in one theory, “and in their anxiety, they cling to outdated roles.”
Today’s young men are “following the line of Peter Pan, ‘I don’t want to grow up.’” Hymowitz argues. “Plus, who needs commitment when there is a fantasy football team league to dominate, the possibility that a gaming product better than the Xbox 360 could be on the horizon, and your live-in girlfriend will have sex with you whenever you want?”
Young men today “suffer from a proverbial fear of commitment,” and this may be the biggest problem – “a tendency to avoid not just marriage but any deep attachments,” leading to a life that is as empty of passion as it is of responsibility, Hymowitz says. For the contemporary guy, it’s “easy to fill your days without actually doing anything.”
The solution? Not a new career, but marriage. Marriage, she says, turns boys into men.
Kindlon agrees. Married men are more successful in work, getting promoted more often and receiving higher performance appraisals than single men. Married men are much less likely to engage in risky behaviors such as drinking heavily, driving dangerously, or using drugs. They are more likely to work regularly, help others more, and volunteer more. Married men also have better immune systems, and are half as likely not to commit suicide.
But women don’t need men like they need us.
“Marriage is generally more beneficial to men than women,” Kindlon reports. “Research found that women who stayed single in their lives seemed to have good mental health, while men who stayed single all their lives did not. Choosing to be single seems to be good for women but not so good for men.”
Role reversal.
This post also published at Brazen Careerist. 18 more comments, opinions and viewpoints there.
81 replies on “Women will lead Generation Y – what will men do?”
All I can say is that I was going to go to sleep early tonight, but saw you posted and had to read it. This article must have taken you a while to write, but honestly, it’s amazing. Instead of all the quotes from businessweek, this piece should replace them.
I agree that there is a rise in women being independent and successful. That statistic about men losing all the jobs is eye opening. I hope Penelope reads this one because it’s right up here alley.
Wow. This is quite the post. Let me dissect a bit.
“I really like alpha males… Johannes is another”–Thank you.
“But these male leaders are not only a dying, but now an unnecessary breed.”
–A little overboard, don’t you think? I think the problems facing the world in the 21st century could stand to be tackled by the best leaders, regardless of sex.
I think you’re missing the core of what an alpha male truly is. An alpha male is defined not only by “strength, dominance, and authority” but also by poise, social competence, and intelligence. You imply that alpha males are intrinsically flawed and one-dimensional, unable to adapt. This kind of logic does not hold water–because one is strong and dominant does not mean they are not able to be intuitive or have a sense for the feelings of others. These are not mutually exclusive traits (as the women who combine them demonstrate). A caveman an alpha male is not.
I will grant you that there are differences between men and women, and that some of your generalizations are true. However, I think the conclusions you reach are largely flawed. Will women continue to gain more power, approaching the power of men? Sure. Is that a good thing? Yes. But will women “overtake” men in these measures? Doubtful. Women are at a biologic disadvantage.
What do I mean? Men and women value different traits in the opposite sex. Traits that serve a man well in the workplace (dominance, authority, and power) not only make him effective, but are found to be attractive in a male by females–as you admit in the first line of your post. Therefore, a man with these traits is admired by both men and women. It’s the classic “Men wanna be him, and women wanna be WITH him.”
A woman is at a disadvantage. Men, on the whole, value physical attractiveness and femininity. The same traits that a woman finds attractive in a man (authority, dominance) are off-putting when a man views a woman. Is it fair? No. Is it true throughout every culture known to (wo)man? Yes. Bound to change???
Look at the presidential race. You have fawned over Obama. Women swoon (and vote for him), and men respect his poise, confidence, and verbal fluidity. Meanwhile, the preeminent Alpha Girl (Hillary) is largely seen as abrasive and “bitchy” (and this all before we now must add racist, selfish, and petty). Power in a woman is not valued by men, while women find it attractive in a man. It may be unfair, but alpha males are here to stay.
Hi, Rebecca. This is an interesting post, and it’s sure to get some good discussion going. While gentler times may be ahead for business, I don’t think the age of force is over just yet. This post is speaking to the victory of women in the workplace, about the eminent superiority of women in the industries of tomorrow. This is language of triumph, competition, and hierarchy, though.
Somewhat interestingly, Mr. Schawbel has responded with appreciation of your work, affirmation of your effort, and empathy at the hard work that went into it. He then quickly demonstrates consideration and collaboration by suggesting that the article should be shared with Penelope.
I’m not trying to point out anything in particular about you or Dan other than a convenient example of things being less clear cut than what I hear you suggesting.
While the content of your post suggests that the old regime is fading, the tone of both the post and the first comment remind us that it’s more a blending and meeting in the middle than anything else, members of each sex seeking to meet somewhere in the middle. Men and women work together in marriage as a complimentary team. I imagine the most successful teams in business will feature the best of both sexes as well.
As Dan said, I appreciate that this must have taken a long time (possibly weeks) to aggregate, and you’ve done a very good job presenting a case from a variety of sources. Thanks for sharing : )
@ Dan – Thanks so much for the kind comment! It took most of a day to bring all the information together, synthesize, and see the patterns… I had more than ten pages at one point, so I cropped quite a bit ; ) It was all inspired by the article “The Slump: It’s a Guy Thing” I linked to in the post.
@ Johannes – Yes and no. It’s such a complex issue.
First off, the research and trends prove that women are better equipped to lead the new generation and economy. So no, I don’t think it’s overboard.
Also, I think Barack Obama is successful precisely because he exhibits the qualities of an alpha female, not the traditional dominance of an alpha male.
Despite being a woman, Hillary is focused purely on winning, not building and maintaining relationships. Clinton is of the old-school dinosaur mold, while Obama speaks to this new leadership style. And that new leadership style – when you look at the new generatio – is primarily exhibited and executed by young woman.
I almost put that in my post, but didn’t, so thanks for bringing it up.
As far as what men find attractive, it doesn’t matter. Women are leading and men will succumb to what we want. This isn’t me just soapboxing; it’s proven in the book Alpha Girls. I’ll lend it to you.
@ Chuck – I think force and strength of a woman are different. I fully expect the genders to meet in the middle, sway back and forth and do a little dance on each other’s lines of what has is generally accepted.
And while we’re still talking about it, young women and men in high school, middle school, etc. aren’t conscious of a real disparity in either direction – a triumph for all of us to be sure. : )
Rebecca
If we are gonna generalize, men are left-brained (more logical) and women right-brained (feeling, intuition) etc. I don’t know any man who would claim that “the research and trends PROVE that women are better…”
or “…it’s PROVEN in the book Alpha Girls.” Illogical statements such as these cause those of us bound by the constraints of making sense to roll our eyes at the women who make them. And as for saying Obama’s only successful b/c he’s acting like a woman? How about saying he’s successful b/c he’s acting like a leader.
And this “As far as what men find attractive, it doesn’t matter. Women are leading and men will succumb to what we want.” It does matter. The governor of AZ, Napolitano, would be a leading VP candidate except that she’s single, unnattractive, and therefore rumored to be a lesbian. It’s holding her back, while a man in the same place would be perceived as a workaholic. Meanwhile, attractive women are rumored to only be where they are b/c of looks (again, you know all too well this to be true).
All I’m saying is that the social structure regarding status makes it much easier for a man to carry a high social status and be admired for it. This can’t be separated from considerations of sexuality. And men aren’t succumbing to women, we’re just not choosing to hold them down anymore :)
Neurscientists are learning that gay people have brains with both female and male characteristics. So really, we’re the ones with the best of both worlds, not Gen Y women.
But we’ll let you straight folks help us run the world from time to time. :)
This article really makes me appreciate my marriage and the male/female dynamic we share. We have what I think is a blending of traditional and unconventional roles.
Where I am emotionally irrational, he is logical; where he is disorganized, I bring order and flow. He cooks and takes care of our dog like a child, I manage the finances and coordinate schedules.
Interesting food for thought…
@ Johannes – Since we talked about this over email, I’ll say just a few things. I’m not sure why research is all of sudden illogical to you. Research is general rational.
Also, I did say Obama was successful because of his leadership style. His style just happens to resemble alpha girls and/or vice versa.
A lot of this post is also talking about what is going to inform the future, and the young women that are coming of age right now. That Governor may be at a disadvantage now, but Gen Y has only just entered the workplace. Think about fifty years down the road. Things will change. For the better.
@ AJ – Your comment made me laugh. Thanks for sharing the interesting research!
@ Milena – Thanks for sharing the first female perspective! It’s great to hear of a couple who is blending both traditional and unconventional roles : )
OK, but whom do you call to move your furniture? Smile.
In the old days–boomers and before–boys were taught to take care of THINGS and girls to take care of PEOPLE. Those distinct lines have been washed away by time and change for the betterment of both sexes.
I sincerely hope that gains for women aren’t because they are STILL traditionally paid less than men for the same work. Why not hire a woman who can do a great job and pay her less? Even though she’s earned it.
Hillary Clinton is the lesser of the two Democratic candidates because I have a memory of the Clinton years and the continuous sex scandels that came before and during with Bill. Hillary showed me she was not the woman I’d want as my President by accepting and living with his unforgivable public humiliations. She lacks backbone and personal pride. She also lied about some very serious things during her campaign that added insult to injury. I’m ready for a woman President. The World has shown women provide superior leadship. I’m just not ready for Hillary. I DO see a Gen Y WOMAN President in my future.
Barack Obama on the other hand exemplifies the traditional family with family values and lives the American dream. He has taken the high road avoiding the “typical pigs rolling in mud” campaigning. He wants to make a difference in the US for everyone and change our lives for the better. He wants to reach out for World Peace and make the World see Americans as good people again. He is thoughtful, intelligent, speaks with confidence, reason, and I believe could bring the Parties together to accomplish what is needed. And he has a great vocabulary, pronunciations, and wants to serve for all Americans, not just his friends in oil.
He’s my candidate, not because he’s a man, not because he’s a black man, but because I believe he can be a great man.
First off, the research and trends prove that women are better equipped to lead the new generation and economy. So no, I don’t think it’s overboard.
Rebecca, I have no doubts this statement is true, In fact, (and I wish I knew the research that supported this) I’ve heard that women do exceedingly well because of our innate “female” tendencies to be caregivers. We take our jobs very seriously. We nurture them like children.
In fact, I don’t think women have changed at all, on a fundamental level. They have focused their strengths somewhere else.
Just thinking out loud here – I wonder if it will stick. Do you think that some women will grow tired of working and we’ll see a backlash back to old-school roles? Child-rearing, marriage, one income, male as breadwinner? I just wonder. Because that’s the route I’m heading in, and to be honest, I’m the most surprised of anyone.
Although – I think that even traditional motherhood roles are changing. The magazine “Working Mother” is fantastic (the title is misleading, terrible branding, great content) Iand I think applicable to all women, not just mothers. It is chock full of info about being a female entrepreneur, work/life balance, and mothers still having careers – unconventional ones that don’t require them to sit in a corner office, but still “have it all.”
I still plan to work as a future stay-at-home-wife, but I don’t think it will fit the traditional work models either…
Just more food for thought. Thanks for starting this conversation.
You did a great job with this post! I have to admit, however, that I don’t forsee the predominance of women in this knowledge economy lasting forever. If the men of the world are anything like the men I know, they’ll find their feet soon enough.
I think the article by Kay Hymowitz was interesting but a little too quick to assign attribution for men’s newfound perpetual adolescence. Surely there are more complex reasons than a different economy to provoke men into this Peter Pan-esque state. She assigns men’s reluctance to make long-term commitments to being immature, but since men and women are marrying and having kids at later ages, can’t the same be said of women?
It’s an interesting post, but for me your strong language clouds the point. As a financial analyst and a researcher, I long ago learned that you can make numbers tell any story you want. I haven’t looked at any of your sources, but they all seem to be sources that are trying to sway an audience, and are therefore most likely using a biased approach to presenting their research. I would hesitate to ever say the number and research PROVE any issue around female dominance, the role of attractiveness or any other points in your article. I would be willing, however, to accept, that researchers have CONCLUDED or HYPOTHESIZED about such issues.
My other issue is how you’ve universally painted all women and men with the same thick brush. Think back to physics class when you talked about the different between theories and laws. Scientists are extremely wary to call anything absolute, even things like relativity. As such, I don’t think you can so soundly conclude such soft social facts to be as universally true as you so depict them to be.
@ Linda – Absolutely. We agree, particularly on what is good about Barack Obama. Thanks for sharing! : )
@ Milena – I’m not sure where we differ. Certainly, it’s our strengths as caregivers that are leading us to lead the new economy in a profoundly different way. There is also research that points that women are also becoming more indpendent and selfish – what have been traditionally male traits. This also helps us. I think the main point is that putting men or women in a defined section or area is no longer applicable. Thanks for the interesting points!
@ Erika – I expect men to find their feet sooner rather than later as well, and the pendulum will continue to swing, sometimes violently, which is why this discussion is so interesting.
I also think you bring up a fascinating point regarding women and their lack of commitment as well – this is another side of the coin I wasn’t able to cover in the post, and agree that women are increasingly putting off commitment as well. We’re all defining an entirely new society. Thanks for the thought-provoking comment!
@ Rachel – Interesting thoguhts regarding reserach. Certainly, everyone can use research for their own viewpoint. And I’ll agree, some sources were biased towards a viewpoint, but that’s why they are presented as “they argued”, “they presented”, etc., not as absolute truths. Other research was clearly not biased. The point is to encourage dialogue, not to have this be the be all, end all post ; )
To your second point, obviously, we can’t generalize that all Gen Y men are the way Hymowitz desscribes, nor are all women the way that Kindlon describes. But these are two important groups that do exist within Gen Y, which is why it’s important to talk about them. Thanks for your comment!
I reject the notion that women will lead generation Y or the new economy. I also reject the notion that men will lead either. Actually the true leader in this “new economy” or any economy for that matter will the be one who has paid the price and done their homework. That’s right, the one who busted their butt to get ahead. That’s the one who will lead. This post obviously took some serious effort. How much preparation did it take? How many late nights did you spend writing a blog post when it would have been much easier to just go grab a drink with some friends instead? To read, write, and communicate effectively is a learned skill that takes work. Hard work. I think people are drawn to leadership that knows what it’s talking about. The leaders of tomorrow will be the ones willing to bust their A** for something they believe in. I know of very successful high school dropouts and very successful people with PhD’s. Both worked super hard to achieve their success and that is the example for leadership going ahead. It’s not about male, or female, old or young, tall or short. It’s about knowing what you’re talking about in a manner that can provide value. I believe the famous quote is, “Success always comes when preparation meets opportunity”. Or maybe Henry Ford’s was better, “Before everything else, getting ready is the secret to success.” At least that’s my 2 cents. This is good journalism though. Take a hard stance one way and let the dialogue flow. :-)
Rebecca – I wasn’t trying to differ with you (for once, eh?) I was just writing some things that were not well-thought-out, or articulated, apparently.
Basically, I was just agreeing w/ you, and also wondering if, despite all this potential for women to excel as new leaders, they might want to stay home and be mommies after all…
It’s not the number of your posts…it’s the quality content that keeps bringing me back here. Thanks for another great post. I guess us males will have to work our brain cells a little harder to keep up. I’m up for the challenge!;)
@ Josh – Great points, and certainly hard work will take us many good places : ) Thanks for sharing such a good perspective.
@ Milena – Short answer would be yes, for me personally. Yes I want to be a new leader. Yes I want to stay at home and be a mommy. But the mommy part that I feel is very rare. My mother says this will change when my biological clock kicks in. We’ll see ; )
@ Mark – thank you. I appreciate the kind words and encouragement!
The sensationalism in this post really undermines the point that you are trying to make.
As for research, you can’t just quote any research and because research is magical have it back you up. Think about how many ways a lawyer can twist facts and then apply that to your argument.
Here’s the problem with the whole thing: Every man in the world is expected to enter the work force at some point but we still live in a world where some women never do. Of course as women move towards the workforce in droves and claim back their rightful 50% of the top jobs it will look like men are getting pushed out and women are taking over when in reality they’re just working their way back to equilibrium from a previously male-dominated world. Getting to equilibrium is a much easier task (even though its been really hard) than taking over the other half of the top jobs.
Generalizations like these are why women are not taken seriously. Good thing someone invented blogs so this irrational piece of misinformation (i.e. this “research” that “proves” that women are “better”) can get published. Cite a few more magazines to “prove” your point next time so I can laugh longer and harder on your “research” skills.
Your observations are perceptive, if a bit theatrically stated. I’d argue that neither gender has a lock on the skills and temperments needed on a global basis. Don’t judge men on their strength or women on their child-bearing potential. Judge each according to the environment in which their skills are applied.
As an unmarried man, I think I should just hang myself because unmarried men are aren’t even men, we’re just heavy drinking mental midgets who will accomplish nothing without women. What would we ever do without women? I don’t know-probably do whatever we want, when we want, and whomever we want to do it with. Did you ever think that married men in the study are like that because perhaps they’ve been castrated (figuratively) by their female partners?
I’m not afraid of the advancement of women, just completely annoyed by cherrypicking self-righteous elitists.
Some good points, but too many generalizations, and some missing factors. The shift from modernism to postmodernism is part of this. The fast changing culture is also. The Cluetrain Manifesto does a good job of pointing out the transition from mass communication from the top to conversation on all levels. I will agree that the cultural shift does fit, in many ways, with how women communicate and work.
That said, among males, of which I am one, there are plenty that act strong and authoritarian, but the number of leaders, those who take a stand, have conviction, make decisions decisively, inspire confidence in others. Male leaders are lacking, and that is tragic.
“Male children…feel comfortable with rules, boundaries, and procedures.” Really? If we are going to generalize, men are more often the adventure-seekers, women the ones who desire security.
Also, extended adolescence goes for both sexes, as does fear of commitment.
[…] young bloggers every day, more voices are needed. And they need to be individuals with a solid, though-out opinion. Not just ranting about being called […]
[…] young bloggers every day, more voices are needed. And they need to be individuals with a solid, though-out opinion. Not just ranting about being called […]
Rebecca, you have a knack for getting me worked up in your posts, adamently disagreeing you, and wanting to call to tell you how wrong you are after reading the first 2/3rds of your posts. And then you pull the rug out from under me with the last 1/3rd and I’m in complete agreement.
Ladies, if you don’t know whether you’re talking to a man or a child, ask what they think about marriage and kids. You will know in five seconds whether you have a grown-up on your hands or a glorified high-schooler. For whatever reason, more than a few women are willing to have sex on demand, live together (with all the related domestic duties attached thereto), have their higher earning power pilfered by a man, and then actually wonder why they’re not yet married! True feminism says no to that setup; if you’re in a dating relationship ladies, you’re not doing any favors if you let him have the milk for free; demand that he pay for the cow with an engagement ring and a wedding date. You’re worth it, and if he won’t pay it, he’s a child anyway.
Rebbecca,
Interesting. I have to say, I am a little disappointed. I have always thought that the Y Generation would combine the best of what has gone before – taking the optimism and we can change the world with a true partnership between men and women. It sounds from your article that women are going to take over the business and leave men behind in the dust. I believe that men and women bring out the best in each other. I am a strong leader, CEO because of the support I get from my husband. Throughout our careers, we have “taken turns” on whose career would be moving ahead. By doing this, we have both been able to have successful careers, a successful marriage and raised two wonderful sons who are becoming incredible men. My hope is that they will be able to find women who are true life partners.
[…] me that I have a text message. I’ve already resigned myself to the fact that I won’t be texting Hercules tonight and so when I receive the message, I am careful not to jump up and rush to the other room […]
[…] me that I have a text message. I’ve already resigned myself to the fact that I won’t be texting Hercules tonight and so when I receive the message, I am careful not to jump up and rush to the other room […]
[…] need to take the next step into leadership and eventually into a female presidency. Being an alpha female is no longer about joining the Good ‘Ol Boys club, which is the perception Hillary Clinton […]
[…] need to take the next step into leadership and eventually into a female presidency. Being an alpha female is no longer about joining the Good ‘Ol Boys club, which is the perception Hillary Clinton gave […]
Women will lead Generation Y – what will men do?
Lemme guess DRIVE THE INFORMATION AGE like we have been doing since it started. A lot’ve guys are dropping out of Tertiary education to start their own businessness. Saying alpha males is on the decline is another false statement I’ve heard about generation Y.
Rebbecca,
First I am a GenX male, let’s say close to the middle of 30s. I was in University was just when the second have of the second wave of feminism kicked off (post Thomas/Hill trial) My school had it’s own scandal before I got there and got a head start as a feminist PC experiment.
My premise is that many (not all) GenY men have been subjected to the excesses of “Feminism Gone Wild”(many lawyers too) in treating maleness or boys as the enemy both cultural and in schools as well as curriculum changes that I was only subjected to for four years for let’s say an extra decade.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/100299/4_year_old_accused_of_sexual_harassment.html
For some reason I don’t think they were taught or allowed to actually become full men as the system told them that was bad, so the became like “Peter Pan” as you say.
http://www.amazon.com/War-Against-Boys-Misguided-Feminism/dp/0684849569
Strangely besides some of the societal and workplace PC crap gone too far that annoys me, but doesn’t change me…I found observed this phenomenon myself by accident…as well as an underlying feminist backlash from these GenY men with strong misogynist and sexist tones.
I was dragged onto Facebook by my sister and friends to stay in touch and document my life apparently. Being very political I got excited about the US Presidential Primary race and joined groups to discuss it and other unrelated issues.
Then I started seeing the shoveling of what I call “Hillary Hate” from these mostly Obama supporter men and regardless of your opinion of her…as I pealed back the layers it really seemed like she was just a symbol to them of all the constraints and negative crap that from their standpoint feels like oppression of their gender coming out rampant at the acceptable target of Hillary.
Similarly I noticed that these GenY men seemed to act far more childish then their age would suggest. Not all of course, but it did seem like far too many taunts, rants and tirades were coming from them and they had/have hair-trigger emotions. There was always a few exceptions, but it was only made more stark in comparison to the GenY women.
The GenY women of all ages seemed to be much older than their age would imply. Far more interested in a conversation or debate over a rant. I even mistook a high school girl on a board as a College Debater trying to bait me, because here school name was really close. I had many good discussions on the boards with these GenY women. (well and lots of others too;)
I think I found that not only were they respectful (vs. some really annoying GenY male trolls while we were trying to determine the fate of the free world), but I got the distinct impression that men their age didn’t treat them with respect or let them actually talk, let alone listen as often as they would have liked.
So beyond the Feminist second wave (mostly Gender Feminism) that ended up lifting up young women and pushing down young men in GenY, perhaps there was two other influences as well.
1) Testosterone levels have been dropping like a rock in men/boys for the last 20-years.
http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/newscience/reproduction/2006/2006-1210travisonetal.html
This might delay puberty and/or suppress some normal male development…generally bad for men.
2) Related to 1) The age of Puberty in Women has been getting younger:
http://www.livescience.com/health/070904_bad_puberty.html
Most likely cause of both in my opinion is chemicals and hormones in our food and water supply.
Maybe the GenY men are being like “Peter Pan” in their twenties because they felt repressed as men in the youth, maybe it’s hormones or chemicals or maybe they avoid responsibility in a world that said no matter what happens it is always going to be their fault.
HAHAHAHAHA! Why do you think such a thing? We’ll continue to explore better, play sports better, be smarter AND make more money then you girls! There’s nothing you can do about it either!
Its been quite refreshing the last 6 weeks…that is, without Ms. Thorman spewing her obnoxious, immature, and misguided garbage over the Internet. This post is a prime example of the worthless (and sexist) opinions expressed on Modite.com.
[…] Hercules moved away. I don’t feel left behind by Hercules, but by my own life which seems to have somehow escaped me. I am beginning to feel engulfed by this when my friend Maria Antonia comes over. […]
Heard that, guys? She all but said it. Think of “Fight Club” . We need to destroy this unholy social experiment the west has given birth to. Too much comfort, too much security. A cleansing violent spasm, like the french or russian revolutions is what is nneded here. A little blood and guts in the streets for awhile’ll get everything back to normal. After that, we agree never to let it get this big and interconnected and opaque again. Meanwhile, I’m checking out Korea.
This hilarious! First women are going to succeed because they are more empathic, better at relating, and not into hierarchical thinking, then you say:
“As far as what men find attractive, it doesn’t matter. Women are leading and men will succumb to what we want. ”
Men will ‘succumb’?
Anyone can pick a handful of social trends and see patterns between them. This doesn’t constitute ‘proven research’! Anyway, even with research on complex social issues, things are almost never ‘proven’ in the scientific sense. Research may provide evidence to support an hypothesis, but virtually never ‘prove’ something.
You brag about amazing analytical thinking abilities that women have now, but theres no evidence of them in this article.
Unbelieveable. Dare I call this sexism? Uh – yes, I do. Imagine if I wrote the same post and reversed the statements. Every woman I know would run me out of town. After all, I’m weak, aren’t I? Thanks for the compliments, but no thanks.
I found the information submitted in this article unarticulated and biased. As an Alpha male that is neither a left or right brain thinker, but a whole brain thinker.
I find it a dismay that many live in an illusional bubble of this present society to portray such an example.
Women and Men alike who are completely happy and free within themselves already a thus. Feminism has been a plague that will soon be eradicated. As an unbalance occurs there will be a kickback. I believe the west currently is living in an unrealistic melting pot of Pretend “Freedoms gone astray” Anyone has only to open a history book to notice that any individual that is controlled, will surely rise up against its controllers.
I honestly believe, women had it better when they could stay at home and be fully catered for. If I had a hypothetical lady that worked hard, and looked after the house and treated me like a little “princess” In my opinion that was not subjection and control, holding a woman back.
That was and is still a man treating her lady like a Queen.
I pity the feminist that fights their like against natures natural progression, and I believe there are going to be many bitter, twisted, ladies in the future who will be sadden when they awaken to the disease which feminist movements trully promote. Hatred towards men.
As an Alpha Male, self made millionaire, in under two years.
From living on the beach with nothing. I laugh at the ladies that they believe being a manager of a bank, or a check-out operator as a career.
Basically it is common slavery of the masses. I seriously doubt there will be a day in which women oppress Men…
After all isnt this what your article is truly subconsciously trying to establish? I must agree that alot of Generation Y Men are “Girls.” Yet I also find daily the amount of Generation Y women that are generally unhappy with their lives. Lets face it. Alot of women don’t exactly use reason and logic in the decision making process.
This may appear sexist, yet is occuerent within all environment in which I walk.
When one marvells at the inventions and creations man has produced. The majority of these were produced for his lady out of love.
An example of this is the Taj Mahal. Men instinctively create resources to attract mates.
The truth is its not that women, aren’t better, or have been suppresed. They are inferior in brain size, capacity, and physically.
I was born with a problem with one of my legs and as such was never going to run as fast as many others. Hypothetically if I was capable of child-birth I would stay at home and raise the child. It is in the child’s interest.
Yet too many mommies, wanna be daddies. It sounds like one of Freud’s Theories to me. “Penis Envy”
Just be happy with who you are, and accept your role and purpose in life. To the writer of this article. I ask one question.
If women are going to lead every field and endeavour in the future? Do you write these unarticulated arguments in your spare time. Or is Journalism your career?
These days if your not earning at least $300,000 per year. I would hardly call any job, male or female a career.
One is simply building a vision. He is a human resource for another individual to live his or her dreams.
Alot of women were promoted with feminist beliefs simply because at the time the west had a decline in population and needed to keep the economy going. This has now changed again. Because of western societies low birth rates, we opened the doors to immigration and a new campaign arose. The illusion of Multi Culturalism.
The power of suggestion truly is a marvel, isn’t it?
Illustrate for myself one period in the thousands of years of history in which the human race all got on together. I remember reading an article in which many Japanese in the US were once brought into the country to build up the economy.
Immediately when they were no longer needed they were sent to concentration camps and then sent back to Japan.
Name one point in history were one, culture, race, or sex, truly ruled over all of society… ?
What one must remember is that.. All are not created Equal.
All have strengths and weaknesses.
All of the human race will never be truly equal. Yet that is why the Law was created to give people equal rights.
Lets face it. If women were truly oppressed for thousand of years of biological and evolutionary progression. What makes one think that after 50 or so years of so called freedom, that they are going to rise up and become the next super-human, and the male visage, will become subhuman and disregarded.
In the upcoming field of robotics, man will of created the perfect woman, and there will a huge economic boom.
What man truly would buy one?
If I desired a woman that behaved like a man. I would of become gay. As the wonderful woman in my life once said.
“Men and Woman are like Shampoo and Conditioner”
The bottles should never be mixed.
Do you know why more women truly are entering and taking over more positions in corporations ands banks as “Tellers” etc.
We do not have to pay them as much! That is the Truth. Meanwhile if we desire a larger cheap work force, corporations are outsourcing to other countries. Pay one fifth of what you have to pay a “Human Resource” to get the Job done.
Once robotics comes in. A lot of Robots will be doing the jobs. I have noticed this trend in my country in supermarkets where alot of the employees have been replaced by machinery and customers now do not have a “Check Out Chick.” Once again why are the majority of Supermarket checkouts filled with women.
You do not have to pay them as much. They are happy to believe they have some important career. Meanwhile corporations are raking the money in. Laughing all the way to the bank.
If you truly wish to be happy in your life. I would suggest that you stop degrading men for the wonderful, intelligent creatures that we are. I truly love women and treat them as an equal. But hang on for a minute..
How do you have any real relationship in business or personal life when both parties want to lead and make all the important decisions?
You don’t.. you just have a disobedient, controlling feminist, that want to control everything. SLowly she becomes bitter in life because none of her relationships work out,
Instead of blaming the propaganda of feminism. She blames men. After a while she becomes conditioned to believe that she cannot have a good relationship with men. Which in turn distills this belief more, and she becomes a lesbian.
On a token note for men out there, have you noticed all these crazy women in their forties, that believe they are still going to bear healthy children at such an age?
Who wants those eggs, seriously?
I would suggest women who read this and desire a career to have children younger, and then work towards a career. Otherwise you will focus on some BS career. Lets face it male or female or careers basically come down to a bottom dollar so we can feed our families and deep down time with those we love is most important.
I worked hard to stay at home with my family. It is more important that some B.S Title on a door. Or a $15.00 plastic trophy entitled. “Dedicated to CEO Maria” for her outstanding work.
That is not a victory for either sex or family and at the end of the day awards, titles, and etc, are just motivational tools used on you to peform harder.
What a croc. Who wants to work.. full stop
In some cultures. Tribal ones we find the men traditionally raise the family. Will the women peform the labour.
Now those men have it made.
Are they considered girlie because they stay at home? On Japan people wear white to funerals it is symbolic of death. In the west we wear white.
People ony work when they are a slave to money.
sorry in the west we wear black
[…] young bloggers every day, more voices are needed. And they need to be individuals with a solid, though-out opinion. Not just ranting about being called […]
Rebecca,
I am a Gen X guy and I couldn’t agree with your post more. I see women everyday doing an outstanding job. I work in a male dominated field and I have met and worked with strong willed and intelligent women engineers and managers. It is well known that women have superior reading comprehension and verbal skills. But women have the “hard” skills too. I have worked with women both as customers and vendors and they always seem to be able to solve complex problems rapidly while I get befuddled! A majority of accountants are women and women are catching men in math and science degrees. IMO, we men need to learn to love female empowerment and become better fathers and husbands and that may involve becoming stay at home dads and role reversal if couples choose to do that. Regards,
I find this article quite sexist and disagree completely. I hope feminism will die out shortly. It’s taken an ugly turn. Fact is, men don’t like feminists these days and have good reason for it. Be prepared for a backlash/counter movement. That wasn’t intended as a threat either. I’m no sexist, but I don’t like women bashing men either and promoting this “girl power” bs. We all need to learn to get along or we will go nowhere in the long run.
Without the efforts of men AND women, there will be no world to lead. Remember that.
I only just discovered your blog today, and for the most part I agree with your assessment of where men and women are going to be. I’m not entirely sure where generation X ends and Y begins but as a thirty year old male that barely finished High School and dropped out of college, I know a lot more women who had a goal or some career aspiration and achieved it all the way through. Basically all my guy friends, including myself, never finished or even went to college, whereas most of my female friends either had a degree or were going to school to get one. While many here have called you, (or your sources,) biased or sexist I do believe that by just going by the raw statistics, and my own personal observations, women will overtake men in the corperate world. The fact is, the majority of women are succeeding in school while boys and men are succeeding in getting into trouble, arrested and thrown into prison. Learning disabilities like ADD and ADHD are much more common in boys and put them at a disadvantage. Girls take better care of themselves and live longer. In addition to that studies have come out showing that women were better leaders and managers. Increasingly more wives out earn their husbands. I’m already fairly used to that since my wife, who just received her Masters a few years ago, is making more money than I am, but I believe for some men this may be all a rude awakening. The fact is I’m proud of women’s achievements. I do believe female leadership would only improve things and you girls definately deserve it.
I don’t believe Rebecca is trying to offend anyone and I don’t believe she is being sexist at all. She is merely pointing out a trend or concern. As a college English Comp. instructor, I can verify that there is a noticeable gender gap in the number of male and female students on the campus and in my class. All incoming freshman are required to take the Intro to English Composition class regardless of their major and every semester the female student seem to catch on and succeed in my class, completing their homework on time. Even the girls that do struggle, stay after class or come to me during my office hours for help. With most of the boys it’s a totally different story. While a few do great, a lot of them don’t complete their homework on time or turn in homework that is either incomplete or just totally unacceptable. Most of them don’t come to me for help and ultimately they either drop out of my class or I end up failing them. I haven’t yet failed a female student. Throughout our whole department the top students are consistently female. As a whole, women are clearly better educated and I really don’t know what is going to become of the majority of young men in this economy. I believe I read an article somewhere that one out of four twelve year old girls living today will have to settle for a husband or boyfriend with only a high school education once they’ve graduated from college.
Hi Chris:
You wrote: I believe I read an article somewhere that one out of four twelve year old girls living today will have to settle for a husband or boyfriend with only a high school education once they’ve graduated from college. You write as if this is some dreadful thing if girls have to mary males less well educated. Males have always been willing to marry women who were less well educated. Less well educated girls did not prevent men from being able to love them. Men did not regard as apparently Generation Y girls do that less well educated males are inferior or not worth marrying .
The possible reason girls aren’t as willing to marry less educated males is because whereas male attraction for females was largely bassed upon sex, girls attraction for males is bassed upon provission and protection because in ancient times women needed men for provission and protection but now that generation y girls are making more money they are no longer dependent upon men for provission and the only protection women need to day is protection from abusers as in doemestic violence.
But the reason girls are now out competeing males for the best highest paying jobs is because girls are out performing boys in education and this is because of two main reason. 1. the educational system is skewed in favor of girls in a variety of ways chief of which is that 70% of the grade value is placed upon course work which girls have natural traits that enable them to excel over boys and 30% of a student’s grade value is determined by exams which boys excel in. Therefor the educational system plays to the strength of females and to the weakness of males.
2. Girls are constantly being told that in order to get their fair share of the best jobs they have to out shine the boys. Therefor girls are fear motivated to excel accademicaly. therefor girls work harder than boys.
Is it any wonder than that girls are out performing males? Already we are see ing marrage rate in decline. Why Because generation Y girls don’t think they need men anymore. They can now even procreate with out males because feemale sperm can now be produced from female bone marrow that when added to the Uterus will creat a girl baby. Thus if we don’t wake the boys up to how they are being set up to fail we could see the end of men. Welcome to the new world order. I have seen the future and the future is wearing a skirt.
Deep Think
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Just as many females are learning to use their masculine energy, I believe many males are learning to use their feminine energy. My b-f is one of them, and the fact that he and I share that knowledge that we are both, makes us a nice combination of people.
Although women can do without men better than men can do without women, that is simply our natural response to picking up the slack where men have failed. When men learn to adapt and use both their masculine-feminine qualities as we are, we will find better mates and won’t have to shoulder all the responsibility. And you know what? Although we CAN do it without them, it’s really nice not to HAVE to.
My wife and I share a similar role mixture, it is indeed fun. I think its also god to point out that in youth, me ned women more, but from what Ive seen, women past 30 definitely need men more than the opposite.
oh look- more misandrist drivel.
MGTOW
I can’t see this happening.
Rebecca Thorman:
I’ve worked with and for some powerful and truly amazing women in the last 30 years. They competed with men on their abilities, brains, and courage. They earned their positions, and respect from those they served… not their sexist rederick.
My daughter is a strong, wonderful young woman , and I adore her. She doesn’t have to put down men to feel any stronger than she already is. Perhaps your true issue is with the kind of man your father is, or wasn’t. Because what I’m hearing from you is something deeper.
I feel that most gen y women suffer a degree of penis envy and struggle in relationships due to there needs to emasculate men for there own sense of self worth. One day man kind will look back at the era of political correctness like we today look at Romans drinking from water ran though lead plumbing and laugh knowing the truth is we are not all equal but equally different.
[…] the Midwest, however, I do not. Twenty-six years of age is starting to get old and the female role models to dispel such rumors are few and far between. I can’t, in fact, think of a single woman in […]
These types of postings always have a strong air of the self-serving and are just dripping with inferiority complex. Trying to paint all young men as lazy, out-of-touch children-grown-older is as facile as men trying to cast all young women as being vain, petty, and superficial.
I’m studying towards a doctoral degree in atmospheric science and 90% of the people in my program are serious, hard-working young men. In fact, most of us get castigated by women to some degree for being TOO serious and TOO hard-working.
This whole spy vs. spy thing with men and women is pointless. Gender differences are not a zero-sum game. It takes all kinds.
Women like this are so self important, self serving, not worthy as any man’s wife, bitter and so many other things I can’t even begin to list. They’ll end up bitter single mom’s cause they scared the dad of their kids away. Note to men: Ignore women like this and leave them alone consumed in their hate which will be their downfall in the end of things.
P.Lane- author of Rhythm Poetry Series on lulu.com
[…] less is more. Women continue to make strides in education and in the business world. We are leaders; we capitalize on and create opportunities to make our talents known; we demand to be treated with […]
[…] young bloggers every day, more voices are needed. And they need to be individuals with a solid, though-out opinion. Not just ranting about being called […]
Disclaimer: Although I’ve read the article several times, I have not gone through all the comments, so I am unsure if this point has been brought up before.
In regards to marriage being a “cure” for the unmotivated male, perhaps rather than a causation relationship- where males who get married tend to have greater motivation- there is a correlation. In other words, the types of males who get married tend to be more motivated before marriage ever enters the picture and they are more likely to get married and start a family because of their motivated personality, not the other way around.
I highly doubt if marriage would change many of the unmotivated men I see around me in college. I agree they need to “grow up”, but I don’t think a wife will do it.
In my economics class we learned that married men get a discount on their car insurance. This is because married men on average tend to drive more safely than their single friends. Nonetheless, marriage is not what causes these men to drive safer. Rather, it is the more calm and responsible attitude these men posses that draw them to marriage in the first place.
Not true at all. I drove like a maniac until I was married. Having responibility you care about absolutely brings thoughtfulnes to action.
Cool then! I’ll just sit on my butt with many other guys while you “lead” and work yourself to an early grave like men have been doing since the beginning of time. You wanted work you got it! It’s not all it’s cracked up to be though I’ll tell you that much. You can have your career and high wages and high stress life. Let me know how that works out for you. In the meantime, I and other dudes will just kick back and relax with few worries.
I can understand your enthusiasm for a female dominated future that the research hypothesizes. I think looking at history, it would be a natural reaction, where a long suppressed entity feels euphoric about its success and uses this success as an evidence of future dominance. China and India throwing America in the dumpsters is another such hypothesis which is based on a similar premise. As some commentator mentioned, what you are seeing is women (and India and China ;) )rightfully claiming their places in the world, however whether they tip the equilibrium in their favor is an eventuality that cannot be predicted with any level of certainty, there simply are too many variables.
I work in a male-dominated Silicon Valley, and given the kind of awesome male talent I have seen, at least the Silicon Valley is surely gonna have its proportionate share of male leaders way into the distant future.
Haha wow I have never read such a biased article! I think you’re missing the ridiculous amount of class many Gen Y men carry and the dropping morals and dignity of Gen Y woman. It is now woman who cheat on men and men who carry themselves with class and dignity. I’m not saying ever Gen Y woman is a slut, that would be ridiculous, but I would like you to really look into the skyrocketing cases of woman sleeping around, fighting like dogs and losing all progress women’s rights protests. Again I’m not saying men don’t do this because they do but the difference is they have been genetically programmed to do so, women haven’t been. Society on women’s side is turning to shit very, very fast due to the images they are being exposed to at an early age.
Thanks “WOW”. But something tells me your barely-literate rant probably doesn’t negate the fact that, despite a few social problems in both sexes, women continue outperform and out-graduate men in the United States (the latter at a rate of 3 to 2). Surely that has to be worth something in the longer term. And by that I mean, even if some women are in trouble, men are clearly in bigger trouble.
[…] applaud women for having the “innate” skill sets (re: emotions) needed to navigate through the changing waters of the 21st century, yet those same […]
I am getting so sick and tired of women thinking that the only contrabution men have made is with their muscles. Now that brain power is needed these women think men are going to loose out to their brainer sisters. How insulting and how inacurate. There is no evidence that women are brainer than men. Women are the beneficeries of an educational system that is girl centered and riged to play to the strength of the female and the weakness of males that coupled with the fact that girls mature faster than boys thus handicaping males. But in every specie the more intelligent the spiece is the longer it takes to mature so girls maturing faster than boys might be an indication that ultimately boys are the brainer gender.
I agree with Ben that Gen y women ages 18 to 34 (and some older females) are emasculating men, but that is a good thing, because the “old macho” is a synonym for war and violence. The “NEW” man is peaceful, kind, and understanding – something that the conservative media doesn’t understand. It will be feminine men that will bring about world peace sooner or later. Also, as to the comment by Chris about the generation start/end dates, I have to say that based on his experiences, the book “Generation We” (a MUST – read for sociologists), and studies estimating that 1993 or ’94 marked the first year that women barely outnumbered men in college, I’d say that Millenials were first born anywhere between 1975 and ’78.
I call into question why Independentpro129 refers to the “New ” man as feminine men. Why can’t the new man be masquline?Is the author implying that masqulinity is itself evil?Is the implication the author wants to convey is that the ole nursery rhyme is true? “What are little boys made of?Snapping Turtles and puppy dog tails. and what are little girls made of?Sugar and spices and all thing nices”?
Also does not the author known that labeling the new man as feminine is the surest way to keep men from adopting these qualities that will bring about the world peace the author apparently desires? Real men do not want to get in touch with their so called feminine side. Real men want to be men not women in men’s bodies.
Perhaps As a society we need to drop the labels feminine and masquline because we want people to develop the better traits. If by chance and, I know this is hard for feminest to believe, but to emphasize a point here let us say that inventiveness is identified as a masquline trait.Would this possibly keep women who want to be women from developing this alleged masquline trait even though its a good trait because they don’t want to be seen as more masquline? This would be a shame for the world would loose out on the tremendous ammount of inventive tallent of our female population.
By dropping the labes feminine and masquline and lumpping the traits together as simply human traits frees up both genders to cultivate their finer traits without fear of either gender becoming more feminine or masquline.This I believe has the best chance of creating in both genders the characeter traits the author desires in order to bring about world peace.
Deep Think
This is so interesting, ever since I saw Phillip Z’s Ted talk called “the demise of guys” I started getting so fascinated by this, and I am a 26 year old male. I don’t read this and get vexed, or defensive, I get worried. I have been watching myself and my friends fill their days with nothing for the past 8 years, and I was intuitively aware that this was bigger than my peer group. I’m a filmmaker and I really want to do a documentary about Gen Y young males, specifically males born between 1983 – 1993…I’m telling you, first hand, this writer/blogger whatever, and Kindlon’s book…their right. This shit is real, sure it’s a general, sure there are guys out there that don’t blaze weed and play xbox all day but I’m telling you the amount that do, and moreover, the about that do and don’t seem to have any awareness of how they are governing their lives…it’s crazy. So my advice to the dudes that read is..chill, you know how to do that anyway, chill, reflect on what’s being said here and start observing. Take this knowledge and venture outside and consciously watch the behaviour of a group of young males. It’s time to wake up boys. I’ve gone back to sleep many times believe me, and as humans we live in constant flux…but just do it! Buy the t-shirt if you have to, get up and stay up.
Uff da, spare me the moralizing and moaning over us men! Why aren’t we spending our early 20s getting married and starting a long-term career at The Firm? Why should we? Hell, if we wanted to, could we? We’re living in a post-industrial society with massive youth unemployment. Even for those of us who can afford student loans and get the post-grad degree you need to be some sort of high-flying career man, let’s face it- spending your whole life accumulating more baubles and status is a really unfulfilling way to live. Yeah, I get it, Michael Kimmel can write a book about how we’re staying in Guyland too long, and we’re supposed to be the ‘providers’. Your solution to our ‘problem’ (finding joy outside of work? Blasphemy!) is to shackle us up to marriage. What is this traditionalist nonsense?
You will then see the End of Days. Do not underestimate men young lady. We built everything you think you are about to inherit Unfortunately for you men will not allow a female dictator to control their lives for very long. Once we begin feeling oppressed we will all get together and destroy everything in our path so that we can start over. However, once we have destroyed everything we will then go to war with each other because there will be disagreement over how we should rebuild and it will take another 10000 years to get back to where we are today. It is a big cycle. Maybe the Mayans were correct.
Men who feel emasculated and meaningless are much more likely to commit acts of war and violence than men who are content and respected by their subordinates not belittled to the point of “equality”.
[…] don’t often get a lot of respect in these conversations, and that sucks. Slaughter begins her piece in the Atlantic with a […]