[...] Original post by Modite by Rebecca Thorman [...]

Gen Y should burn bridges by deleting comments too, apparently.

I deleted Ask a Manager’s comment because it was inappropriate on several counts. Particularly, if someone uses inappropriate language, their comment will be deleted. Keep it PG, people.

Good clarification. I think a lot of career advice is situational. Everyone has different goals, passions and strengths. You have your viewpoint and some people, namely millennials, will benefit more from it than others. You know your audience!

The second comment said something to the effect of “Did you delete my comment?” I sure didn’t see anything inappropriate about that. I never saw the first one, but I find it hard to believe AAM would fire something off with no substance whatsoever. Did you consider censoring this objectionable language?

I fail to understand how you can say that you got a lot of cool jobs through your connections and networking and then say that burning bridges and references don’t matter. A lot of industries, yes even the cool ones, have people moving from company to company within it. If you burn your bridges in one company or with one boss, you could very well find yourself face to face with some of the same people later on. They won’t care if you can do the job, they won’t want to work with you again.

You deleted her comment again? This is getting ridiculous. Good luck with the blog and everything.

@ Dan – Thanks so much for your input – this was a large point of the clarification – that different things work for different people. My hope is not the people agree with what I say, but they are challenged to think about their own views.

@ Zach – I deleted Ask A Manager’s comment again, because she insisted on using inappropriate language again.

@ HR Minion – I definitely don’t think you should burn bridges with relationships that are meaningful and valuable to you. And I appreciate the perspective in your comment – I think it makes a lot of sense.

The word I used was a synonym for “buttocks.” I think we can all handle it. My response is over at my own blog if anyone is curious about what this wildly objectionable language was.

Maybe instead of consistently just insisting that cool companies do not check references, how about citing more than just a couple (mostly personal) situations? I’ve talked to hundreds of HR practitioners and I haven’t found one that advocates not checking references. Many Fortune 500 companies (some of which are really cool places to work) insist on reference checks through a service. So what are those people going to do if they take your advice?

@ Lance – I’m not sure if you watched the whole video, but I did say that there are certainly companies that will check your references, and also, most importantly, that what worked for me won’t work for everyone.

In addition, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t maintain positive relationships. Doing so will ensure you’ll have references when the time comes that you need them.

Yet you reiterated your point that “cool jobs” don’t require references in the text after your video.

I mean, it is confusing. It is contradictory. You said you stand by your views and that nobody has to agree with you yet you are conciliatory (at least to me) that it doesn’t work for others. If you said “‘Don’t burn bridges’ was bad career advice for me and here’s why,” this would have been a lot less confusing (and of course, about 60 less comments).

I’m afraid the whole thing just seems like link bait to me rather than valuable advice. The titles of both related blog posts are very generalized (as well as controversial) but the author’s defense is that the content is personal and not relevant to everyone. Also deleting a very valid critical comment on the very thin premise of “offensive language” (come on we’re all grown ups here!) is a great way to spread the content and therefore the back links to other blogs. Or am I just being cynical or perhaps even “burning my bridges” ;-)

My .02 worth–Rebecca…you write a good blog and are good at engaging people. And the thing about giving advice is that…well…sometimes you’re going to be wrong.

I’m not GenY. But I do hire GenY people for my team. And the people on my team consider me…and my company… cool.

But you better believe that I check references. And your social profile–your FB page if I can, Linked In, your blog. I do Google folks to learn as much about them as I can without being creepy about it.

I’m not looking for a reason not to hire someone. I don’t consider pictures on the ‘net of someone getting hammered at a party to be a disqualifier for employment.

I’m looking for reasons TO hire someone. I want to know why I want them on my team…why I should invest my company’s money and my time into you.

So your profile on the web doesn’t disqualify you. But not having references WILL. I’m not looking for anything specific in a reference–I just want to know what people are going to say about you and see how that matches up with my impressions.

Do you need a reference from every single job you’ve ever had? No. But I’m going to call, and if find inconsistencies in your story from previous employers, I’m definitely going to think twice about hiring someone.

Best policy–just be honest. If you burn a bridge at a job, that’s your choice–I’ll take the circumstances into consideration cuz I’ve worked for difficult people too.

Still, the best policy is that ‘what goes around, comes around.’ Life is long and you’re bound to run into people again later. You don’t have to kiss anyone’s butt, but a general attitude of be respectful and taking the high road is always good advice.

Best wishes to you…

I’m a Gen Y-er, and I run my own company.

When I hire interns (and we hire a lot), I don’t check references. They’re short-term employees and only with me for a few months. It’s not worth my time to call past employers (which are usually restaurants or summer camps). I can tell from a resume, an interview and Google if you’ll be a good fit with us for a semester.

But, when I’m looking to hire someone full-time, you can bet your *butt* that I’ll check every reference, find you on the social web, and then check your references’ references. No matter how smart you are and how fun and cool you may be, if you’re a jerk who doesn’t care about people, you’re simply not worth it.

That may be old school, but it’s what works for me.

Knowing people is great – treating people like they matter is better. Sometimes things don’t work out, but throwing caution to the wind in order to burn a bridge rarely works out in someone’s favor.

Being ambitious and job hopping, even if it makes your employer unhappy, isn’t burning a bridge – it’s doing what’s best for your career.

Being deliberate and burning a bridge is just plain rude. And rude people can’t work for me.

Hi Rebecca,

You look more comfortable doing videos now so good for you. The sunlight coming through the window behind you is a bit too bright and you’re being ‘washed’ out as a result. You might want to experiment and try to soften and diffuse your light source. Got to love it – nothing to do with the content of this video. :)

Mark

I don’t check references and I didn’t even think about it until I saw Rebecca’s commentary on the topic.

Hiring managers who are well networked expect to hire people they know through someone. The Wall St. Journal reports that 90% of jobs come through peoples’ networks, which means that most people are probably not checking refreences, they are just too scared to admit it.

Also, newsflash, large companies don’t give substantive references — there are too many legal problems with giving even a mediocre reference, so most companies will only confirm work dates and title. This means that all references are coming from peoples’ friends. And, duh, of course the references will be good.

Which explains why good hiring managers don’t rely on references. They are useless. Get your own network if you want good input.

Penelope

“Which explains why good hiring managers don’t rely on references. They are useless. Get your own network if you want good input. ”

What? Are you kidding me? Any responsible hiring manager will check references.

Absolutely a personal connection is a great way to get your foot in the door. In fact, my last 2 positions were created for me due to a personal reference. But, the job offer didn’t come until my references were checked!

Do what you want. If you want to burn bridges that’s fine. But it’s irresponsible to speak like you are an expert on hiring and recruiting. People may take your advice and in this economy, no one can afford to burn a bridge.

Maybe this is why so many companies fail in their first 2 years. They aren’t checking the references (and hence the credentials) of the people that they hire.

I have to disagree with Penelope that good hiring managers don’t check references; it’s easy to find many good hiring managers who do. I’m one of them, and so are probably others who have posted here.

Additionally, in my experience it’s a myth that large companies don’t give substantive references. Their HR departments don’t, that’s for sure. But individual managers do. I’ve never run into a candidate where the past managers refused to give a detailed, substantive reference, and that includes candidates from big companies.

If I recruit a candidate through personal networks, I’m not going to do a full-on formal reference check. But I’m going to ask around to people who know her — and stories about bridge-burning and other bad behavior come out.

It all comes down to the situation. Penelope hit the nail on the head about networks and networking. (Most) jobs come from the people you know – in that case, references may not be so important. Now, if you’re job hunting, cold calling, sending out resumes – references are going to be important.

Obviously I don’t know everything that goes on behind the scenes, but it seems like smaller businesses focus on what they personally think about you, while larger companies, who may not have the time to get to know you (and may never really get to know you while your there) on an intimate level – rely heavily on your past references of character and job performance.

It’s different for each job. I think Rebecca makes a little bit TOO bold of a statement when she says ‘Don’t burn your bridges is BAD advice’ – you should leave every job with class and with maintaining a good reputation in mind, it’s never wise to throw up the bird and yell screw you on your last day at a job. I think a better way to say it is, don’t burn your bridges, but don’t focus too much on building the ones that won’t matter’.

I have some really strong opinions about this but am trying to understand.

What is your definition of a cool company?

I’m also very curious for a description of a “cool company” and even more so, “cool job”…

Rebecca, the last three jobs that I’ve had have all been through a personal connection that were trusted and got me in the door. However, just like you mentioned your hard work and intelligence has to be backed up.

At my current startup, I came to the table with four strong references and letters of recommendation, but I also came through a networked connection. Although this isn’t the case with every position, none of my letters were needed and they didn’t check my references because of who I came through and what I was able to show them at the interview. I think this is a perfect example of what Rebecca is talking about.

From the comments I’ve read and people’s polar opposite opinions, I really think that different industries and companies expect references due to their formality or corporate structure. I have to agree that references never hurt if they’re strong and from a mentor or past boss that you trust and respects you.

Question: Are we debating the semantic difference between references (titles and dates worked) or recommendations (“I recommend hiring this person.”)?

While I agree with Penelope about hiring managers only checking to references (title/dates) – I always thought recommendations from managers carried the threat of lawsuit – so folks don’t even bother trying to get them.

If anything, if they do check refs – it’s just so to make sure you aren’t lying on your reference.

But if you have recommendation …it might not matter anyway…?

I’m not sure what all the huff is about. Okay, Rebecca says cutting ties with negative relationships is a good thing.

AAM believes you should treat people well b/c if you don’t it may come back to haunt you.

Oh…and cool companies don’t check references.

WTF? (please don’t delete my comment) I’m with MN Headhunter – what’s that mean anyway?
I’m beginning to feel like the geek who’s not asked to prom.

Yet, anyway, I was always under the impression that burning bridges was not just about how you behave with your boss or co-workers. It’s also about those deal breakers like quitting without notice. Leaving projects unfinished. Costing the company lots of money.

And while title of the post from the other day is broad (b/c for some reason we are STILL talking about it) – the advice is simply about moving on from bad professional relationships and not being loyal for loyalty’s sake.

Enough said.

Penelope,

You said “The Wall St. Journal reports that 90% of jobs come through peoples’ networks, which means that most people are probably not checking refreences, they are just too scared to admit it.”

I can’t find the reference for that exact figure but I will take it at face value. The last part of your quote is purely speculation though. I knew a person at my current job who helped me get my foot in the door but he wasn’t working in the same department or under the same division as I was going to work. So I still had references checked and went through the regular interview process. They just helped by pulling my resume out of a stack of 200.

@AAM – In my experience (I’m in HR), the only managers giving out substantive references at large corporations are either unaware of corporate policy barring them from doing so, or simply don’t care.

@ Raven – You’re exactly right about the difference between a reference and a recommendation. Corporations just don’t (or at least shouldn’t be) giving out recommendations.

Can we all agree that it would be alright for a Gen Y to distance themselves from a bad or useless professional reference? I may be wrong here, but to me Rebecca isn’t advocating giving notice and walking out in the span of 15 minutes leaving the workplace scrambling. I take it as well I’ve done what I need to do. I’m leaving on proper grounds (not making a scene and having worked my 2 weeks notice), but now that I’m out of the company I’m not going to work to maintain these references and contacts. I take her message less as “burning your bridges” and more as just letting them fall into disrepair, forgetting about them and moving on to newer better bridges that you’re happy to work on.

Just my take. Feel free to agree or disagree.

Doesn’t Penelope own a company that makes its money through job ads? She must believe ads are a decent way to get jobs then, not just all personal connections and nothing else.

Sean- Yeah exactly. Managers at big companies give out references-recommendations because they don’t care that HR tells them not to. I have never had trouble getting a boss at a big corporation to give me references. Its commonplace.

I’ve had people give references that turned out to be bogus anyway. References are not the end-all for hiring someone and shouldn’t be. I agree that networking is a great way to find a job and hire someone. When you have someone come forward and recommend someone for a job, they are putting their reputation on the line and that’s the best recommendation I’ve found. If someone would give you a poor recommendation, that’s not the end-all either. I’ve seen plenty of personality conflicts and poor bosses where recommendations would be poor, but should be taken in the broader context because I think we’ve all seen that happen. Thanks for the “hot potato” topic, Rebecca. I agree that not burning bridges is old school too.

I’m all for new thinking and new challenges but I think this might be a little extreme. Burning bridges for the sake of burning bridges is a bad idea. There will be times in your career when you leave a place of employment on not so great terms. But doing it just to do it, doesn’t make much sense to me.

I have two comments:
1) You appear to argue, soundly, that one should exit a job graciously, give proper notice, finish projects, etc., but that it’s ok to burn bridges. Likewise, you say folks don’t need references to get a “cool job,” but that you do need to know people who can help you get a foot in the door and vouch for you. I would say your advice amounts — soundly — to “Don’t burn your bridges and cultivate good references.” Don’t be ashamed — embrace your old fashioned inclinations!

2) I’m having an ongoing battle with my current employer regarding her obligation to provide proper toilet supplies in our office facilities. As you are in the toilet paper/trash bag biz, wouldn’t you agree that providing flushable wipes for one’s tootie is not only a fantastic morale builder, but essential to proper hygiene and disease prevention, thus cutting down and sick days and increasing productivity?

Please to discuss.

I might suggest that a more responsible idea to put out there would be to say to your readers:

” Yes, I personally have gotten jobs without having to provide formal references, but most organizations do check them in one way or another, formally or informally, even when you’re being recommended by someone “.

Reputation follows you, whether you hand someone a list of formal references to call, or they make some inquiries “behind the scenes” about you, which is most likely your personal situation.

Don’t think of it in terms of references or recommendations. Think of it as your reputation. It will follow you and it will make the difference in getting hired, whether the company is cool or not.

Any hiring manager knows they are taking a risk with every hire and their desire to minimize the risk. Not looking at the reputation of a candidate that you don’t know personally and can’t get a good bead on through your network turns the hiring from a risk to a gamble. And I don’t gamble with my company’s money.

When you go to the grocery store you don’t think much of putting out .98 on a can of generic green beans. If you’re going to spend $50,000 on a new vehicle, however, you probably want to know who made it and how reliable their vehicles are, etc. Hiring an employee is the same way. I expect to get years of service from them and I want to know I can count on them, day in and day out.

As a hiring manager I think it is important to be well networked so you can speak with folks who work with the possible hire at the other company. Reference lists are typically nothing more then a person singing sunshine about your potential hire. If you know someone else at that same organization you can typically find out the real vibe about the person.

Generation Y doesn’t need a reference if it doesn’t need a job. How else will you prove your achievements? Who else can vouch for your skills, attitudes, behaviors?

I’m not really sure what the big deal is. Let’s pretend that Rebecca’s advice is so bad that it gives you an STD (because some people are acting like this advice is a matter of life or death and are all “how can you be so irresponsible?”). Well, if you were stupid enough to take such bad advice maybe you deserve the consequences of the STD. Also, you would probably get the STD regardless of whether you listened to Rebecca or not.

The reality is that Rebecca’s advice is not going to kill you if you follow it or don’t follow it. And a reasonable person would take some time and ask questions like, “Does this advice apply to me?” or “Would this advice apply to people in my industry?”

My favorite part of her video is how she highlighted the fact that all of a sudden the networks of the super successful have been opened up to us “common folk” because of things like blogs and twitters and whatever else is out there. Is no one else super excited about that? Is no one else seeing the immense possibility that comes with carrying on conversations with change makers of various industries? I think that’s exciting. It’s the same game (networking gets you in), but there are new rules (you no longer have to be the son of a CEO).

I find it funny to read the hot debate that takes place in the comments: references v. no reference.

There is truth certainly on both sides. It is the case that some “cool” positions will require references while others will not be necessary. In the case where you do not wish to have your previous employer be a reference. There is certainly a way around that. Networking being a powerful tool.

Therefore both sides are right, it is up to everyone to decide what will work for them.

I really appreciated Rebecca’s post thought, as it allows people to realize that there isn’t only one way to have a “cool” job. It is refreshing to have career advice that differs from the traditional school.

I agree! You don’t need references to land an awesome job. But again you don’t NEED them. They still don’t hurt at all to have and obviously can be a great thing. But in todays world and in Gen Y its about just going and getting what you want. People that disagree with that are just jealous because they didn’t just step up and ask for what they wanted.

Rebecca,

Thanks for continuing the post and starting such a lively topic. I think its great that you put yourself out there, but I have to disagree with you. There a few things that feel better than telling that “idiot boss” what you really think on your way out the door. And I think the truth is if that boss is really an idiot, the market knows it and would discount any kind of reference they would give you anyway.

But I think the real reason you don’t burn that bridge is not because you may need a reference from that manager — what if your old company is a client of your new company and becomes one of your accounts? What if the old manager hires on at your new company’s best client? IMHO, the reason not to burn bridges is because of what happens AFTER you get the new job, not before.

I think that the original post was a bit short sighted and poorly worded, but what was SO bad about it?

I agree that references are important. No doubt about that. Even if a former boss cannot comment officially about what kind of worker you were, they could informally comment, especially if the old manager and hiring manager know each other personally, but I think the point that Rebecca was trying to make is that you don’t need to put time and energy into an ongoing professional relationship with past bosses if you had a bad time working for them. What’s wrong with that? I don’t consider that bridge burning. It’s like acquaintances. I don’t see them or talk to them often, but I could if I needed to. Do managers expect that after you’ve worked for them, that you continue to email and call them for years afterward? I would find that quite strange. It might be helpful if you had a great time working there, but if not, I don’t see why you need to maintain a relationship.

If ya ask me, this is much ado about nothing.

The more I think about it, I see what’s going on here:

1. Young, smart, attractive person says something provocative.

2. Older folks flip out.

This has been going since the beginning of human society.

It does not matter whether or not the young person was right. It seldom does. Older folks flip out just the same.

I may be young, but I have realized that older people don’t like when younger folks rock the boat, even just a little bit. They especially don’t like to be told that their way of doing things up to this point might not work anymore, and that they may have wasted time in the past.

I also know that older folks get a tad bit jealous of younger people from time to time, and wish that they were at a point in life where they could say what’s on their mind and take their career whichever direction they want. Young folks who are smart, attractive, privileged, and unencumbered by kids, mortgages, marriages, routines, etc. especially draw older folk ire when they speak their minds.

Now, I consider myself Gen Y, if maybe on the older end of the spectrum (I’m 28). Although I do realize that my generation might be a bit naive, idealistic, cocky, and inexperienced, what young generation isn’t? Let us be once in awhile.

Like it or not, we will be running the world very soon. As a result, formal reference checks may very well go the way of the dodo.

Stop the Clock! Aren’t we all talking about the same thing here? A reference is just a statement of fact in its basic sense and a statement of character in its more involved. Whether that is through a network or through a piece of paper makes little difference.

I have recruited through contacts and through formal processes. The question is carrying out due diligence. If a candidate comes to me from great contacts, I am still going to check them out myself and not just go on their word alone. Likewise if someone comes through with formal references I am still going to google the hell out of them.

All this said, I think there is a limit to the number of times you can breeze out of a previous employer all guns firing. Don’t forget that the person you are going to might have great networks too, including your previous boss. Ultimately its a very small world……

So, I work for a start up. My opinion on “cool” is that you’re certainly not if you have to advertise yourself as such. We walk around barefoot and hang out, have flexible work/life options and the environment is awesome. But honey, I still do a full reference check for each and every single candidate we consider extending an offer to. We value insight and creativity but much more than that, we value our culture and a reference check can let you know if someone’s got ghosts in their closet. Any HR professional or hiring manager that doesn’t is running a pretty high risk…a bad, fake, or incomplete reference check can cost you a job. (previously to my current job, I worked in a much more corporate atmosphere where we did full reference checks and ::gasp:: degree verifications. Go figure). This is horrible advice from a twenty something who is clearly not at all that experienced in things like “life” and “common sense.” (Spoken by a late-twenty something with a bit of experience in life and this whole common sense thing.)

I’m 26. I think that Justin’s comment is why our generation gets a bad rap: “I may be young, but I have realized that older people don’t like when younger folks rock the boat, even just a little bit.” What a horrible attitude! Maybe “older people” don’t like it when people have a bad attitude and sense of entitlement, and aren’t willing to work hard. I don’t have a problem with those who see success at a young age, but I also see many entry-level employees who think they’re ‘too good’ to do the work that comes with their job.

My first job out of college was a “cool” job at a start-up. The company was doubling in revenue and size every year for the three years I was there, the founders were 30, and it had an amazing culture. And we checked references for every single person hired there, whether or not they had a personal recommendation or connection from someone in the company (and most did).

I think that Rebecca isn’t communicating what she really means. Her message isn’t about burning bridges – failing to maintain a relationship with a bad boss (which is fine) is not the same thing. But it’s ignorant to think that how you treat past bosses and co-workers won’t come back to haunt you, especially in the “cool” jobs where the community between companies in an industry can be very tight knit.

Telling people that you don’t have to maintain contact with an old boss is good advice. Telling people that it’s OK to burn bridges is irresponsible.

Hi Rebecca,

It is not so much a direct matter of references but something you also noted in your response – Networking. It is not so much the boss, him/herself, but who he/she knows. We all have the “A**hole” gene in us. We’ve all been unreasonable jerks at times in our lives. But we are also capable of being really nice people, bad boss or not. That’s the whole Yin Yang of living.

[...] also points out, (in an impressive video) that rich people have never needed references. That makes sense to me: Rich kids have always had their parents’ friends in high up places [...]

references are a complete waste and a joke. tainted, biased, colored, jealousy galore. the aging boomers work addicted enjoy doing this pseudo-vetting. people leave jobs all the time b/c the job sucks, abuse, verbal/.physical etc….that is why people leave jobs. effective interviewing, multiple interviews, results is what matters. not the typical corporate american references by former bosses that have an ax to grind, or are jealous/resentful that they are cowards and still have not left their sheeple type job.

[...] readers. Present a quick problem and ask your readers for input on the solution. Or use video to respond to comments in a more personal [...]

Grace, I second that. Couldnt have “said” it better myself! References nowadays are about brown nosing – how does the prospective employer ascertain objectivity?

Historically, great men never had good references because they always rocked the boat:

- John the baptist: Hated by a queen
- Jesus: Hated by a King & an entire community
- Moses: Hated by a King
- King David: Hated by a King
- Daniel: Jailed by a King
- Galileo Galilei: Disgraced for asserting that the world was not FLAT

What kind of references would the above people have? Yet they are some of the greatest people who ever lived.

What makes HR people think the former boss gicving reference is professional, ethical and has good intentions? That the former boss was not a sick sadist/ psychopath (30% probability according to researchers!)?

In some places it’s no longer about your work and what you did for your company. Its about how well you sucked up to an abusive abusive boss who used the threat of “ruining future prospects” to keep their victims on a leash.

Dont burn bridges = Be nice to the sick jerk – even when you dont have to!

After being bullied and abused at work a couple of times I made up my mind. NO MORE. I will fight back and when forced to a desperate position, I will cross the bridge, then burn it. Close the chapter permanently.

I can survive without a “reference” from a sadistic jerk who will probably defame me at the slightest chance anyway.

Seriously, what guarantee do you have that an EVIL person who was nasty to you WHEN YOU WERE THERE PHYSICALLY will suddenly have a touch of benevolence, goodwill and sense of fairness when they see one last opportunity to attack you?

If your boss is a jerk and mistreats you – get something better then let him/her know in no uncertain terms what EXACTLY you think of him/her when you’re leaving (or immediately after leaving – in case its not safe).

You dont need that kind of poison in your life. After 10+ years in corporate world, I made a decision to take control of my life and have never been happier and more healthy. If your boss is ajerk, dont hesitate to burn that bridge. Call a spade a spade and make that one-way move to a better you.

Cheers!

:-)

I think that your statements are a little hypocritical and just poor business sense – especially given that you said you got your leadership job at a company through your contacts – who essentially acted as your references. Not burning bridges is not “old school advice.” References don’t need to be just employment references, they can be character references as well. Think of your references as an extension of your network…which is what they should be.

While I agree that we can’t be people pleasers, I still think it’s important to have a wide network of people that will stand behind you. Imagine you burned every bridge, no one would help you and your network would be really small. And with no network you have no opportunities.

Great advice, as long as you’re a pretty young white girl.

Im gonna go out on a limb here and say you’ve never held a professional job ever.

Im gonna say a cool company would be “McDonalds” and a cool job would be “Drive Through Order Taker”. Cause thats about the extent that this little gem of info is going to get you.  This person has obviously not taken any career “to the next level”, cause rest assured, any credible company is going to want references.

In fact as a rule of thumb, I wouldn’t really listen to the advice of someone fresh out of college.  I want a video from Rebecca Thorman 10 years from now to see how she feels about references.  She will either stick to her guns and hold on to that minimum wage job at her local fast food joint, or she’ll have realized that most of the things her parents told her were true.

You’re right… those paychecks I’ve been getting have fallen off trees! Thanks so much for clearing that up.

Possibly true. Privilege has given me a lot; I recognize that.

This is one of the stranger comments I’ve ever received. Oh well. This was posted two years ago. I still stand by it. Network? Hell yes. References? Eh.