A few weeks ago, I met a twenty-something pursuing an advanced degree in Political Science to become a professor, although he had no real-world experience in politics. I listened to Mr. Poli Sci and then I said, “How can you possibly teach something you haven’t experienced?”
Mr. Poli Sci became quite defensive at this point claiming he had objectivity (!) since he wasn’t personally involved. I tried to think of one successful person in politics that attempted to stand on both sides of the fence. Politics is about having an opinion. It’s the very definition of passion.
In talking to Mr. Poli Sci, I realized he had committed two common Generation Y sins. One, he had a vague interest in a topic, but no passion, fostering an apathetic approach towards life. Two, he went to grad school to fix it. Life is better with experience. Here’s why:
1) Grad school is good on paper, but barely. An education doesn’t allow your competencies to be realistically measured, or allow you to be differentiated among other candidates. An education simply signifies that you have completed a degree. It doesn’t provide the full picture of your marketable skills.
Moreover, an advanced degree may bring you more money, but it’s not guaranteed. What is guaranteed is the extra stress your additional student loans will create and the regret you’ll feel for wasting your efforts when you don’t end up using your degree. Seems barely worth it considering “grad school is a confidence-killing daily assault of petty degradations.”
2) Employers look for experience, so should you. Real-world experience reigns supreme over schooling. Every time. Your experience in the real-world interacting with real people and real situations allows you to be uniquely suited towards a particular position. Of course, you need education and knowledge to put places on a map. But then you have to go live life to arrive at a destination.
Sure, Mr. Poli Sci would be a good professor, but never great. Great professors have fervent opinions, they know intimately the subject matter upon which they speak, and they have formed a deep respect for the other side. Most importantly, they’ve formed these opinions as the result of real-world experience.
3) Objectivity gets you nowhere. It’s easy to be objective when you haven’t risked anything. But success in business is not objective. Decisions are based on the relationships you have with others, and the emotions of how you’ve lived life up until this point. The facts can be laid out in front of you, but it is ultimately the experiences you’ve had that determine an outcome.
4) It’s better to do something, instead of just learn about it. Why, exactly, are so many of us in such a hurry to re-institutionalize ourselves? I spent years in college yearning to be done with school. Especially the flash card part.
Going to grad school is not having the guts to get on with life. You’re not telling corporate America anything by indulging in a larger map. You’re just making it harder to figure out which road to take. Want to give the finger to the establishment? Go blog. Go start your own business. Go to work every single day and rock every single day.
31 replies on “Skip grad school. Life is better with experience.”
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Just wanted to share some of the always insightful comments from Ypulse readers this week. I’ll kick it off with a comment on my post about the YouTube debate, which will be aired tonight on CNN. Brian said: Excellent post…….
Do you really think that graduate school has no place in the “real world”??? I find it interesting to reflect back on my undergraduate days and note that some of the best experiences were the relationships that I fostered while going to school. Of course I did take some wonderful courses and even managed to learn a bit. I just wonder if you think there is much value in going to graduate school in order to be in an environment surrounded by other like-minded individuals. For example, let’s say “Mr. Poli Sci” is interested in politics, but doesn’t have the “real world” experience that you speak of and yet during his graduate work he get’s more involved in “real world politics”. He has more debates and discussions with his peers that he would not have had in the “real world”.
I think that some of the best value from a graduate school would be for someone that DOES have real world working experience and then goes back to school to dive deeper into the subject matter. A business person will have a lot more understanding and appreciation for an MBA if he or she ran a business for a while prior to going to grad school. Likewise “Mr Poli Sci” will probably gain more from a graduate degree if he has worked in politics for a little while.
Probably the most “qualified” applicants for an upper level job would have a good mix of schooling and work experience. To say that graduate school has no value I think is naive. However, the never ending student that goes straight from high school to undergrad and to grad school is not a formula for success.
There’s my 2 cents worth. Good job on this blog!!!
-Josh
Graduate school definitely has benefits. If its free or extremely cheap. I will venture to say that my undergrad relationships benefited me more than the actual courses I took. But paying $100,000 to build relationships is absurd! Read a political blog and contact people through it, go to a town hall meeting, go to a college bar and strike up a conversation. There are plenty of ways to develop relationships with like minded people, you dont need to pay for that.
If your company is offering to pay for grad school, however, that is a whole different story. Then I say go for it.
@ Josh: Thanks for your comment and differing perspective- I appreciate when people disagree with me- truly! Okay, here are my thoughts:
– Aren’t the relationships you speak of and being surrounded by likeminded people fairly easy to cultivate outside of school through networking and referral groups? In a sense, giong to grad school is less work than going out and meeting people each day, so it might be easier in that sense, but not any braver and certainly not as useful.
– There are times when going to grad school will help you in your career and an MBA is one of those rare exceptions. In fact, most MBA programs insist that you’ve had real world experience first. But I do think in most cases grad school is a waste of time and money. The most qualified candidates have the skills to do the job right. You don’t learn those in grad school, you learn those on the job.
@ Ryan: I love the your comment about paying $100K for relationships is absurd!I do find it odd that you would think that if your company is paying for grad school than to go for it, however. Just because something is free, does that make it worthwhile? True value is irrespective of money, and if grad school were truly valuable it would be okay to pay for it. But it’s not. So what makes it okay for your company to pay for it?
@ Everyone else: What do you think? Would anyone be willing to share their reasons about why they did or did not go to grad school and subsequent experiences?
Grad school is worth it if it’s free because of the relationships you can build. If you can get into a Top 10 business school and have it paid for, I guarantee the contacts you develop and the things you learn are worth your 2 years.
If you are going to just have something on your resume, then even a free pass probably isn’t worth it.
$100,000 to build relationships. Absurd, perhaps??? How much money do you think that large companies spend on advertising??? Let’s say, Coke. Millions??? Maybe even billions??? All that money is spent to convey a feeling to an audience and ultimately build a relationship with it’s customers.
The other thing to note is that $100,000 to simply build relationships I do think is absurd. However, that is definitely not the only thing that I learned in school. In fact the only reason that I’m able to read this blog, think critically, and write back some sort of intelligible response is due to my undergraduate studies. Did I have to pay all that money to go to school to learn how to read, think critically, and write effectively??? Probably not. But it seems like a pretty good way to go about it.
I’m in the real estate business as a residential Realtor and I am considering a shift into more commercial/development. I don’t NEED to go back to graduate school to go into commercial brokerage, but I do think that there is inherent value in obtaining the proper training for your field. In fact if you look at Terrence Wall of http://www.TWallProperties.com you’ll notice that he DID go to graduate school and has one of the most successful and fastest growing real estate companies in Dane County. I do have my broker’s license and I could just open up Josh Lavik Realty and begin marketing myself as commercial broker. However, without some sort of training or experience I would have a difficult time obtaining customers. I could start small and build it slowly over time trying to figure it out along the way. OR I could go to graduate school for about 2 years and do as Steven Covey says, “begin with the end in mind”. Start grad school with an eye on what my ideal job will look like post-grad.
Would you trust a doctor that didn’t have the proper credentials??? I hear webMD has a lot of good information on it. In fact I think I got an offer in my spam filter for an advanced degree that doesn’t even require me to attend a class. :-)
Also, I don’t agree that if it’s free then go for it. Nothing is free. Everything has a price. And generally I believe that you get what you pay for. If your company is paying for your school then you will probably have strings attached. The only reason that I can think of why a company would pay for school is that they (the company) believe there IS value in having a more educated employee through proper training. And they believe in retaining you as an employee within the company long term.
Rebecca – as for cultivating those relationships without school. Do you honestly think that you would have met the people you met in college without actually going to college??? I know for sure that I would not, even if I had tried.
@ Ryan – Business school and grad school are different. And really, how many of us are getting into a Top 10 business school?
@ Josh – I am not arguing people shouldn’t go to school and get a bachelor’s degree, but I fail to see how grad school is all that useful. Especially in a field such as yours which is all about relationships and past experience, what true value would you receive from going back to school? I certainly wouldn’t trust a doctor without credentials, but that’s a professional degree. Even then, however, I would argue that many of the doctors I know are fairly unhappy and have other passions that would have made them happier in lieu of going to med school which is more socially acceptable and certainly gives you a good salary. Returning back to relationships in college, the majority of contacts I have now are a result of networking, not college relationships, since many of my college friends moved from Madison. As I stated in the article, education provides a good foundation, but you only need so much of it and any more is procrastination, instead of living life and being as successful as you can.
Hi Rebecca,
a little tough on the twenty something year old.
Some jobs require a degree (or even two) before you can even apply to get an interview.
Some rquire a post-grad or post-doc to be even shortlisted or considered for an interview.
Sure if you’ve run three successful multinational corporations, no one is going to ask you if you’ve got a Harvard degree (or not).
And if you’ve written and published a book, no one is going to doubt that you can put in the time and commitment – which is what most degrees show.
But yes as we all know networking is important. It is about who you know, but who you know usually hires you for what you know – what you can DO, or what you have learnt (or achieved).
@ Quasar9- Tough? I’m going to take that as a compliment ;) I understand that there are special situations regarding grad school and career and presumably if you know what you’re good at, and what makes your boat float, then you will get which jobs require such degrees. But to go to grad school just because you think it will make you more money or will differentiate you from other candidates is risky business. That’s why I think we should encourage real world experience a little more… You’re right, who you know hires you because of what you can do BASED UPON your past achievements, experience and record. That’s quite different than what you’ve learned. It’s doing and action vs. knowledge.
Grad school is an interesting animal. I have to say as someone with both full time work experience and almost all of grad school under my belt (been doing both full time for several years), I see where you are coming from. The real problem with grad school is when people use it as either an escape from the real world after college or when they assume that simply having a degree entitles them to a better job or more money. It doesn’t. And it shouldn’t. I know a lot of people in grad school who simply don’t get it, and it’s sad to me.
That said, grad school is not only about relationships. If you take it seriously. If you don’t, then connections will be all you get out of it, and if you get those, you will be lucky. Theory and research, though, if you’re in a good grad program, can elevate your knowledge and understanding to a level you won’t get in undergrad or from work experience only. That “old school” knowledge take on grad school is still available and valuable – for people who want that.
Where the rubber meets the road is your ability to make all you learn in grad school work for you in the real world. Practical, professional application is what will make you stand out in the end. You don’t have to go the grad school route to get there, but it’s not an evil in and of itself. It’s all about what you do with what you’re given.
@ Tiffany: Great comment and well put! I’m not averse to education- I think it can be a wonderful thing. I’ve thought about going back to grad school many a times and rejected the idea. For me, it’s a stagnation. I can’t imagine working full time and going to grad school full time. If I were able to do that, it might be worthwhile ;) Really though the professional world is so exciting, I think some of us just need explore that a little more before jumping into school as you stated.
These are good comments concerning graduate school. It’s all about measuring where you are, where you want to be and then forming a development plan to get there. Graduate school is a good stepping stone for some people. If you can get into a top tier school, then it’s worth the investment, otherwise it may be a good refresher for a marketer, where things change quickly.
@ Dan: So true, so true. I especially like the mention about measuring where you are. The recurring theme seems to be that people just aren’t paying attention enough. Anyone have any suggestions on how to change that?
Rebecca,
Unfortunately, many of the myths about grad school in and of ifself helping your career stem from universities themselves. They are, after all, tied to bottom lines, too. It’s hard to get to students before they make the step into grad school, especially if they don’t step out into the “working” world until after their master’s degree is in the pocket.
So, to answer your question, I think it’s important us as professionals to get involved in the lives of students through professional organizations, internships and mentoring so we have the opportunity to share these observances with them first-hand, when they’re at that decision point.
Of course, blogging about it is good as well, but I seriously wonder sometimes how many college students are out there reading these professional blogs . . . I didn’t. Reaching out seems the most practical answer.
@ Tiffany: Again, great perspective. I didn’t even think about universities promoting the myth regarding grad schools. I agree with you that hardly any students read these type of blogs. Any grand ideas on how to promote to students? I also find that finding and being a mentor is one of the greatest challenges out there. If someone made that process easier, they would be a very successful person…
[…] July 26th, 2007 There’s a lot of talk lately on the topic of grad school. There’s outcry against it. There’s advocacy for it. There’s confusion on the part of students and professionals. Universities throw their two cents into the mix. There’s a lot of information and opinion flying around. […]
[…] Preferences are the key to starting your personal finances. I don’t think financial websites emphasize this enough. For example, consider the articles “Skip Graduate School” and “Unpaid Internships are a Waste.” While the articles make valid points, their overall message is misleading. Isn’t graduate school good for some people, say, the professors who end up getting Nobel Prizes in their field? And can’t unpaid internships lead to paying full-time jobs later, or a chance to explore a non-profitable passion like a humanitarian non-profit? […]
Isn’t Grad school experience? What was your experience at graduate school? Do you feel you have learned more from being out of school then your time at graduate school?
Rebecca,
I found you via CrummyChurchSigns. Excellent blog and discussions. Although my experience as a second-year seminarian falls outside the boundaries of the normal grad school experience, I thought I’d chime in with a comment or two.
I am working toward ordination as a minister in an organization that does not require a graduate degree from a seminary (although there are other rigorous requirements). That said, I decided to enter an interdenominational seminary because I wanted to mingle with others whose beliefs didn’t match with mine. What better way for a minister to prepare for living in a complex, diverse world with varying opinions than to train that way for several years?
The experience has been difficult. I work full time, as does my wife. We are both active in our church, and spend no fewer than 10 hours per week counseling, teaching and other activities for which we are responsible. Adding the demands of course reading, paper writing, learning Greek and Hebrew to an already busy schedule is taxing. Much of the material does not prepare you for the real world of church ministry, and most seminary professors will tell you this.
So, why bother? A seminary degree gives one cachet that those without it simply do not have. It enables one to move around in society and in the world of religion with less scrutiny.
But there is another reason: the knowledge one gains by enduring the difficulty of a seminary program cannot be replicated elsewhere. Rare is the person who would have the discipline to read through the core curriculum and submit a paper to a blog or academic journal. I know I’m not this sort of person.
Thanks again for an interesting discussion.
[…] Read when you come back, thirsty for more Prioritize your authenticity Generation Y breeds a new kind of woman 3 workplace weaknesses that are really Gen Y strengths Advice from top Executives, CEOs and Presidents 7 networking tips for Generation Y Posted to: Blogging | […]
You can never go wrong if you follow your feelings. I chose grad school more for the experience. It felt right when I went to see it. The program was something I was really excited about, it was cross-disciplinary and a fun field, one I like. The people were awesome. The town felt like home. And I made a lot of supportive friendships. Financially? I don’t know. It was worth it. If you’re determined, or need, great income during grad school, there’s plenty of bigger schools and private schools that offer nice assistantships.
Argh! I’m very conflicted with this article. On one hand, I do want to disagree with it because I can. And because you did in your comments. Surely this is not the whole conversation. Let’s throw another log (or two) on the fire: Consider that Bachelor’s degrees are quickly becoming the norm in the office environment and you want to distinguish yourself. I’d recommend to those individuals that they earn an MBA, or a professional certification (LEAN or Six Sigma come to mind) if they want to distinguish themselves from their peers and climb the ranks. And another point to throw out…does objectivity exist? The academics will talk this death, but let’s cut the chase: Passion, conviction and a point of view matter. Period. Don’t give me lukewarm…give me hot or cold or I’ll spit out!
Rebecca, as you know and have stated Grad school isn’t the key to everything. but it can get you a higher salary. You should separate out the professional degrees: mba, jd, and md from other degrees. The forementioned can double, quadruple, or even quintuple (it is a word) your salary. This is a far cry from piled higher and deeper (phd), best,
Tim Gill
To equate the “real world” with the consumerist, materialistic, profit-driven, greed-fueled world of business that drives our modern disco ball of a society is a joke. In this model, Britney Spears and McDonald’s are gods. In academia, on the other hand, researchers try to find deeper truths. To me, that is a more worthy pursuit. Graduate school can be a means to a meaningful job, not just a path a higher paying McJob.
[…] much thought, discussion, and reading (mostly in the blogosphere grad school debate), I realized that each professional decision is a personal decision. Professionals, colleagues, […]
[…] much thought, discussion, and reading (mostly in the blogosphere grad school debate), I realized that each professional decision is a personal decision. Professionals, colleagues, […]
I think you’ve overlooked the fact that in many graduate programs you do in fact learn to do something that you cannot learn to do in any other context. Medicine, law, and science all must be learned through postgraduate eduction, and “real-life” experience absolutely cannot be substituted for that education (I never noticed that any graduate students were leading imaginary lives, but maybe I just wasn’t judging hard enough). For science degrees in particular, students must produce data to graduate. They also, of course, are paid to do so. I think it is highly ludicrous to suggest that people pursuing these fields are wasting their time by failing to go out and be the best little business peons they can be. Not everyone is interested in hawking goods and services.
[…] for two or three millennia,” says Dean Edward Snyder of the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business. A comment so arrogant that we have to assume Dean Snyder isn’t intentionally asinine, but rather […]
This is garbage. Maybe it’s true for some fields, but definitely not mine. I am graduating with my PhD this year and have a job lined up paying me double what I had to look at after my Bachelors degree. This is the case for all my other graduating colleagues as well.
I think this is one of those, “What came first, the chicken or the egg” sort of scenarios. I actually started working professionally BEFORE I earned my degree. And I only got that chance by accident. I worked low-level retail jobs for years, then I got a temp assignment (my 5th one in a year) for an insurance company and the general counsel actually noticed that I was a hard worker and intelligent and I moved up through the ranks (in 5 years, my pay increased 125%). However when speaking to those outside my company, the common remark was, “It’s tough to be competitive without a degree.” or “Most people in your position have a Bachelor’s at least”.
I’ve sat on hiring committees where we have received as many as 165 applications for one position. Yes, the ones who have degrees get put on the top of the “to interview” pile, although we would go for people who do not have degrees, but have the right mix of experiences and personal fit for the position. I admit, a lot of this is fueled by the high competitiveness of job hunting….you need SOME standard by which to categorize people and slim down the interview pool. However I work for a university where there tends to be tons of applications for any one position; so the story may be very different in the small business sector where positions do not have as many applicants. However those positions tend to be filled by networking anyway; not necessarily by “may the one with the most experience win”.
If anything, networking is the key…not so much experience. At least this is what I have seen. Also it saddens me to even bring this up, but as a Black person, I deal with a lot of preconceived notions and stereotypes. (For example, I actually had an HR person at one company that I interviewed with remark that I “speak well” and that I’m not an “around the way girl” — I was FLOORED!). Having a degree helps to build some confidence in these people who might have some misgivings about my work ethic due to my race. Is this a given? No. But it is a chance that I feel I personally do not want to take.
I’m a twenty something, about to graduate from undergrad, and trying to figure out next steps. Thanks for your insight and clarity! Convincing all around. Plus, as I look into possible grad programs what I’ve noticed is, they too want experience. So, if everyone (even grad schools) want real world experience, it seems to be a no brainer: let’s get to livin’!