In her cover story in the Atlantic, “Why Women Still Can’t Have it All,” Anne-Marie Slaughter proposes workplace changes in an effort to balance the impossible juggle of career, life, and motherhood.
The problem is, there’s still a lot more up in the air.
Slaughter argues women can have it all – assuming that America’s economy, society, and men just get their heads on straight. She proposes we change the culture of face-time in business, integrate family values into the workplace, and regain work/life balance. Such policies, she says, would enable women to find some sanity.
And she’s right, women can have it all, but we can’t do it all. And that’s where Slaughter and other advice from high-powered women executives falls short.
We need to rethink the workplace, but more importantly, we need to rethink motherhood. Women in the workplace is a relatively new phenomenon, and as such, we assess the system’s flaws freely. We safely point out all sorts of places where workplace culture can help us, but no one goes as far to say that we should request help with motherhood. While work woes are considered modern and new, and thus, up for debate and change, motherhood is considered old and sacred, and despite the context of modern times, we still believe motherhood should be practiced in a singular and specific way – alone.
Presumably, we’ve got motherhood down pat if only we could find enough time to do it. But motherhood does not live in a bubble and as work changes, it pushes the definitions of family life. Instead of responding and changing our views of motherhood, we insist on holding onto impossible Madonna-like ideals. Case in point, Slaughter poo-poos rich, career women who rely on round-the-clock nannies, implying that those who use nannies have failed in combining “professional success and satisfaction with a real commitment to family.”
My own mother didn’t have a choice. As a single mom, she worked full-time outside the home to pay the mortgage, put food on the table and provide me an upbringing that wasn’t rooted in poverty. While I do consider my mom a superwoman, she too had her own set of nannies in the form of daycare, after-school activities, and my babysitter Peggy, the neighbor across the street. In contrast, Ryan was raised by two loving parents, dual-incomes, and a bevy of nannies. Incidentally, we both grew up to be pretty amazing people.
The simple fact is that no matter how much you make, what you marry into or the level of your career success, you cannot do it all. Every woman, regardless of class or choices, needs help. The old adage, “it takes a village” often gets paid lip service, but unfortunately we live in an increasingly insular and disconnected society that holds onto the notion that women shouldn’t just have it all, but should do it all as well.
Women are not superhumans, however, and despite trying to do everything ourselves, it’s just not possible. We’re human. Not superhuman, but prone to make mistakes, imperfect, devoid of energy, even love at times. We have feelings and our sole purpose in life is not always to take care of everybody else. Sometimes we need to take care of ourselves.
While we openly discuss the policies that need to happen at a government and career level, we need to openly discuss the changes that need to happen in our family lives as well. We no longer live in a society that allows you to go-it-alone, despite the strongly independent roots of the American Dream, if you want to have any semblance of sanity.
We need to talk about the realities of motherhood, our changing relationships with our partners, and the fact that it’s completely okay to have help – from your nanny or your neighbor, husband or daycare, cleaning person or assistant. Modern life cannot support private nuclear families or picture-perfect lives. Let’s return to our real roots of kinship and community while we advocate for flexible work hours.
You need help, no matter who you are. And the sooner we let go of the ridiculous Madonna-like ideals and notions of motherhood, the better off all women will be, those who want to have it all and those who just want to put dinner on the table.
A Note on Men
Men don’t often get a lot of respect in these conversations, and that sucks. Slaughter begins her piece in the Atlantic with a successful career and an unhappy adolescent son, along with a husband who has a career and the flexibility to be at home with their son as needed. She closes the article with a less successful career (by her standards) and a happy adolescent son, along with a husband that presumably has more free time now that she’s home more.
The insidious conclusion, albeit unconscious I’m sure, is that a woman needs to be home for the full-growth and success of her child. A man with a less demanding career is not enough.
If women are going to successfully change the notions of motherhood, we need to accept that men can help us and that they will be really good at it. Fair’s fair.
57 replies on “Women: Change Motherhood, Not Just the Workplace”
Nothing will tell you that you can’t do it all like having a kid. Thankfully, becoming a dad helped me reshape priorities (in all the ways it should).
For some, a successful career is a very high (the highest?) priority, kids be damned. I think Gen Y is shifting (will shift?) this, changing how parenting happens in concert with a career.
Stay-at-home dads are increasing in number. Workplaces are changing. Maybe fewer Gen Y men and women will want to be EVPs of Company X and will continue to start their own businesses en masse that allow them to be the kind of parent they want?
I’ve eschewed chances to work 40+ hours a week with a “regular” schedule climbing a ladder for two reasons:
1) It’s not me (my personality)
2) My role as speaker/author/consultant/entrepreneur gives me flexibility (at the expense of consistency, often)
My wife works a shorter workweek (33ish hours) with less pay (compared to a 40 hour option) to get 7 more hours at home.
Options are increasing, but in you want to climb a ladder for a title or position, sacrifices/changes are needed. Either way (following a path or paving your own), I agree with you 100% that help is needed, however it’s found.
I haven’t read The Atlantic piece yet (it’s sitting on my counter waiting for this weekend’s flight), but am really looking forward to diving in.
Thanks for the comment, Sam! I’ve really enjoyed following your ideas and how they’ve changed after becoming a dad and so appreciate you sharing your experiences. You talk about when you want to climb the ladder, that sacrifices are needed, but I think my point is that no matter your situation, you will always need to make sacrifices. We’re each in unique situations that will never be perfect, and we need to give women especially the permission to ask for help and not feel guilty. While I do hope and agree that we should move toward less work (hey, if we’re all working less, maybe we could hire more people and that would help the economy a bit too?), I also hope that people realize that having it all doesn’t mean doing it all. If you want a career and family, you can have both, but will need to trust that others (dad, neighbor, nanny) can be there for you.
Enjoyed this! I think there’s HUGE pressure on women to spend a ton of time raising their kids even if we have a career… but on the flip side, women often WANT to do that, want to spend more time with their kids than their career allows. But maybe if we changed the conversation around having help, not being around quite as much would feel more acceptable.
Did you read Elise’s take on this? http://www.heyelise.com/2012/06/21/thinking-through-the-women-cant-have-it-all-essay/ She talks about how her mom was raised by help, and she was raised by her mom… and how that changes their perspectives.
Enjoyed this! I think there’s HUGE pressure on women to spend a ton of time raising their kids even if we have a career… but on the flip side, women often WANT to do that, want to spend more time with their kids than their career allows. But maybe if we changed the conversation around having help, not being around quite as much would feel more acceptable.
Did you read Elise’s take on this? http://www.heyelise.com/2012/06/21/thinking-through-the-women-cant-have-it-all-essay/ She talks about how her mom was raised by help, and she was raised by her mom… and how that changes their perspectives.
Thanks, Alexis! I totally agree, there’s pressure, there’s wanting, there’s not wanting, etc. My point is that no matter who you are, if you decide to spend more time with your kids or not, if you have the choice or not, you will need help. We simply can’t do it all. So it is not about making a judgement around what is acceptable or not, but realizing that it doesn’t matter. You’re going to need help (a family member, the schools, a cleaning person, whatever). As I say to T.S., that sort of mindset will help every woman, not just career women.
Enjoyed this! I think there’s HUGE pressure on women to spend a ton of time raising their kids even if we have a career… but on the flip side, women often WANT to do that, want to spend more time with their kids than their career allows. But maybe if we changed the conversation around having help, not being around quite as much would feel more acceptable.
Did you read Elise’s take on this? http://www.heyelise.com/2012/06/21/thinking-through-the-women-cant-have-it-all-essay/ She talks about how her mom was raised by help, and she was raised by her mom… and how that changes their perspectives.
Enjoyed this! I think there’s HUGE pressure on women to spend a ton of time raising their kids even if we have a career… but on the flip side, women often WANT to do that, want to spend more time with their kids than their career allows. But maybe if we changed the conversation around having help, not being around quite as much would feel more acceptable.
Did you read Elise’s take on this? http://www.heyelise.com/2012/06/21/thinking-through-the-women-cant-have-it-all-essay/ She talks about how her mom was raised by help, and she was raised by her mom… and how that changes their perspectives.
Enjoyed this! I think there’s HUGE pressure on women to spend a ton of time raising their kids even if we have a career… but on the flip side, women often WANT to do that, want to spend more time with their kids than their career allows. But maybe if we changed the conversation around having help, not being around quite as much would feel more acceptable.
Did you read Elise’s take on this? http://www.heyelise.com/2012/06/21/thinking-through-the-women-cant-have-it-all-essay/ She talks about how her mom was raised by help, and she was raised by her mom… and how that changes their perspectives.
Enjoyed this! I think there’s HUGE pressure on women to spend a ton of time raising their kids even if we have a career… but on the flip side, women often WANT to do that, want to spend more time with their kids than their career allows. But maybe if we changed the conversation around having help, not being around quite as much would feel more acceptable.
Did you read Elise’s take on this? http://www.heyelise.com/2012/06/21/thinking-through-the-women-cant-have-it-all-essay/ She talks about how her mom was raised by help, and she was raised by her mom… and how that changes their perspectives.
I was actually kind of shocked that you didn’t bring up the issue of race and class explicitly in your counter arguments to this article – in fact, I skimmed the post just to see if you had mentioned it. And you hadn’t, not really.
The extreme problem with Slaughter’s post is its extreme whiteness, heteronormativity (the assumption that most, if not, all people are straight) and of course, class/income status. There’s actually a short article on the article that critique’s Slaughter’s post, and focuses on low income black and brown (latina) women who work low income jobs, with no health benefits accessibility : http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/22/annemarie-slaughter-haveitall-feminism
I like this post because the author talks about “trickle down feminism” – this idea that if only high income, white, straight women get all their “rights” in order, the rest of us will have it too. Which is utter bullshit.
The problem with articles (and everything really) that are written by straight/white/cis/rich women is that there’s this assumption that other types of people don’t exist. You don’t see articles detailing the -isms and systematic issues that people outside of this niche experience and it paints the “woman” experience as a purely white woman experience.
I’m black – my life isn’t respresented in either the article or your response to the article. I’m childfree (someone who doesn’t aspire to have children biologically) – my life and choice isn’t represented in the article or your response to the article. I’m a lesbian – my life isn’t represented in the article or your response to the article.
These and a myriad of other facts about me aren’t represented in the original article or your response to it. Not all women are the same, but (not so) surprisingly, posts written by [white] women never reflect that.
So I have to point this out because loads of white, and straight women think advice for them can be tailor fitted for other people – which is beyond nonsense. Our experiences don’t take place in a vacuum, and this needs to be reflected in the advice we give, in the articles we write.
T.S., You should read the whole article instead of skimming it because it is exactly about class, and that is a big argument I make. Even the final sentence concludes that by making help okay, ” … the better off all women will be, those who want to have it all and those who just want to put dinner on the table.” Slaughter’s article was full of privilege and my whole point is that if we make changes to white-collar workplaces, that will help rich, white women like Slaughter. If we make changes to the very notions of motherhood, we help every woman, regardless of class (which I also say in the article). So I can’t accept your comment that just because I’m a white woman, that I’m not thinking about these issues. Sorry. The whole reason I wrote the post is because I didn’t see other women in my circles thinking and talking about these issues.
Actually, after re-reading the post, I have to say that the post doesn’t explicitly discuss class privilege or white privilege in any in-depth and easily assessable manner.
Yes, there are moments in the post that mention Slaughter’s class, but I don’t think the analysis of how motherhood is treated across racial identities is adequately (if at all) addressed. To simply say, “We need to change motherhood, because it helps everyone!” without really digging into what, how and why motherhood is treated differently between different types of women – doesn’t REALLY address the issue at hand.
And so my previous contentions about your post remain the same; it didn’t address issues of women who have different life choices. It doesn’t address the relationships that are non-normative and it doesn’t address the issues surrounding women who don’t want to have kids (or can’t). Part of the problem of the post – and Slaughter’s original article – is that it presupposes all women are the same (by using the term women instead of using more selective terms to divide what type of women are being talked about. And I’ve seen this happen in other posts as well, to make it as clear as possible as to what and who is being discussed).
So to say that “you can’t accept my comment” because you’re white ignores a lot of what my comment was about and the points I was trying to make. And I still think your post has a lot of privilege in it because, like I said, there was no real investigation into how class and race intersect and effect how motherhood functions (which was illustrated a little bit in the article I linked to in the original post).
So I think my original comments points are still valid, and worthy of being explored and discussed.
I agree with you Tatiana that the issues need to be discussed. But these are HUGE issues. I have around an average of 800 words in a blog post. You can’t possibly discuss every angle. There have been hundreds of replies to Slaughter’s piece and the culmination of them provides a huge, wonderful discussion across the Internet. Some of those posts discuss exactly what you want to hear. Some of them don’t. (I don’t think the link you shared was the right one, btw). Just because my post doesn’t hit on every single topic you want to talk about doesn’t mean you should tell me what to write, or tell me that my points are invalid. It means you should write a post yourself.
I loved this article. I teach 1st grade, my husband watches our 8 month old son, and friends will babysit when my husband works nights and I have class. I am constantly feeling like I’m not doing my best in a certain arena- I spent extra time with my son but my lesson plans aren’t great, or I’m working on a really cool unit of study at school, but I haven’t put my son to bed in two nights. I try to remind myself that I don’t have to WANT to do it all, and that I’m lucky as hell to have husband who helps me so much.
Awesome, thanks for sharing your story Ashlie. I love how you phrased that – you don’t have to “want” to do it all. I think for many women, that’s true. Wherever you fall on the spectrum, we often feel bad for not wanting to do it all, but wanting to have it all. Something has to give, and I love that in your case, your husband helps and you that you feel lucky as hell about it :)
Hello Rebecca,
I’m really happy to see that you are writing on this topic and including men into the discussion. Historically, raising children has fallen on women’s shoulders. But obviously, times have changed and continue to change.
What about men that want to be more involved with raising children but also want to climb the corporate ladder? Certainly there are men out there that want both – I know, as I have interviewed them. And what they tell me is that they can’t balance work and life, so work wins out. I’m sure that many men struggle with the same issues that women are struggling with, they just might not be as willing to talk about it. It also doesn’t get much media attention.
Thanks so much, Suzanne. This is a topic Ryan and I talk about a lot, and I actually talk with him more about it than I do my girlfriends. I do think men think about it and want to help, want the balance, and are just as capable. Maybe I’ll have Ryan do a guest post here because the male voice often gets lost in this conversation completely. Thanks for sharing the experience you’ve had in talking to “have-it-all” men!
Hello Rebecca! I enjoy your site but haven’t commented before… I thought one interesting thing is that sometimes moms don’t want help, we want to do it ourselves. When my daughter is sick, I want to be there, even though I could get help. I want to be there for school events, playdates, etc. Moms have different preferences of course but I do think the fact that we often WANT to be the ones there gets forgotten about. It’s almost like we shouldn’t admit it because it makes us seem like bad workers.
Thanks for the comment, Kimberly! And totally get what you’re saying. Some women want to, but some women don’t want to (per Ashlie’s comment below). I think the idea that women want to be with their kids is really well-represented in Slaughter’s piece and hopefully many of her suggestions to change the workplace will be implemented because there’s no reason we need to feel like bad workers because we want to spend time with our child. I wrote this post to bring to light that many women can’t be with their kids even though they want to. And those that want to, sometimes can’t because of societal constrictions (i.e., like you said, “it makes us seem like bad workers.”). And I think there is a lot of guilt that happens because of all this and that sucks. So we should let go of that, and… well, all of this is still a work and progress, isn’t it? I could go on and on! Thanks for making me think a bit more :)
Really well-said. However, I think that while it’s really nice to believe that a father can and should play an equal role in parenting, I think the reality is that motherly instinct is very strong and I’ve seen many women, try as they might, struggle to relinquish control or partial control over their children’s care (esp in the early years) to their husbands. We want them to help and we want it to be equal, but I think we (or maybe nature) stands in our way. I do think at different points in our lives, different things will be priorities – children, career, relationship, friends… There’s an ebb and flow. Perhaps we can have it all, just not all at once?
Thanks for the comment! While I totally agree that the motherly instinct is very strong, I also strongly believe that the fatherly instinct is just as strong. I wouldn’t phrase it as relinquishing control (to me, that feeds into this idea that we have to do it all by ourselves), but that it’s wonderful that your child to has two loving parents if that’s the case. I will say, my views have changed. I used to believe women were more capable, but after being with Ryan for so long, I don’t think that any more. He may do things differently than me, but he’s no less loving or awesome. Also, see Marie’s comment above, beginning “I’m going to have to disagree…” which I think was meant to be a reply to this one.
I actually enjoyed the Slaughter article, but I’m loving this more. The reality is that you can’t choose to (or have to) work AND be there for every moment of your child’s life. We need help.
Once I went back to work I had to realize that letting people help me was the only way to survive. My husband is at home during the day and I have grandparents on hand any time that I have a meeting in the evening or just need someone to help while I get writing or other work done. Is this how I want it? Usually I love it, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want to be the perfect mom who was there to kiss every boo boo and fix every breakfast. I focus on the fact that Otis is learning that there are many people out there in this world that are looking out for him and love him. This is a good lesson, I think.
Also, you couldn’t be more right about the false idea that a man isn’t quite enough for his kids. Mark is an amazing father and so are many of the dad friends that we have. In the same way that men realized women could run countries, women need to realize that men can run households.
Marie, I enjoyed Slaughter’s article as well, but something rubbed me the wrong way, and I realized we consistently only talk about one half of the equation: work. We never discuss motherhood, only what career policies should change. I’m glad you enjoyed my post, especially since you are a young mom with her own business. It’s awesome to hear your perspective.
And I love this, “In the same way that men realized women could run countries, women need to realize that men can run households.” Right on. I never thought I would have to defend Ryan, but I often do in conversations with other career women who want to put down men. I think I used to be one of those people, but my views have changed.
I’m going to have to disagree. I am 99% sure that if the father is a good and responsible adult that loves his kid he’s going to do just as good a job as a mom. The kid might spend more time with milk in his hair and watching more F-1 racing than if the mom was around, but he’s going to be loved and taken care of.
I think this was supposed to be a reply to Mili’s comment below, oops! And I am with you on this one, Marie.
I love it! Not Motherhood or Fatherhood – Parenthood!
Thanks!
Your final comment hits the nail on the head. Often women end up trying to do it all because we feel unsupported, but I think if a lot of us took the time to see where that was coming from, it would be a subconcious belief that if it is to be done right, we have to do it. It’s time we gave others in our lives a chance to do things for us, or with us, to open up those conversations.
I TOTALLY agree, and this idea, “if it has to be done right, I have to do it,” is something I struggle with on a daily basis. I want Ryan to help me clean, but it’s only been recently that I’ve let go enough to actually let him do it. These types of conversations are ones we have a lot, so thank you for bringing up this point!
Hi Rebecca — I’m interested in your observation that “Women in the workplace is a relatively new phenomenon, and as such, we assess the system’s flaws freely. We safely point out all sorts of places where workplace culture can help us, but no one goes as far to say that we should request help with motherhood.”
I’m not sure how I feel about motherhood being viewed so heavily, almost singularly, as the motivation for shifting workplace culture. It feels like having the conversation in the same vacuum in which earlier feminists claimed we could have it all. (And while I’m using your post as the catalyst, my point is that I think this is happening in lots of places/posts.)
What if we viewed the situation with motherhood and “having it all” as a canary in the coal mine on work culture and career paths? What happens when we consider this a symptom? What if instead of solving the problem of making motherhood and careers work together, we looked at women as some of the “early adopters” and test cases of transforming work culture on the whole? What if this was innovated just like you might a product or service?
I wonder if that would help shift the dialogue from being deficit-driven and exclusive (e.g., women can’t have it all, this is a women’s issue, etc.) to being innovative and more inclusive (e.g., the workplace isn’t working — let’s reimagine it so it’s more useful and healthy for everyone). This is an extension of what I already blogged about (http://emilystoddardfurrow.com/post/25605921170/are-we-having-the-wrong-conversation-about-having-it), but I appreciate your post sparking my questions/thoughts a little deeper!
Hi Emily, great thoughts! I think much of what you talk about is already happening, or is at least getting paid lip service. Often, policies that are changed at workplaces come about because of a woman but are rolled out to every person as beneficial. The workplace is broken, and I do believe women are seen as a catalyst to change and repair it. I guess what I was trying to get at more was this idea that if we just focus on workplace repairs, we’re missing a big part of the picture. We need to talk about motherhood in and of itself (separate from the workplace) and discuss changes that need to occur there. Because motherhood as an institution needs to change just as much as those old, stodgy corporations. I’m really looking forward to reading your post in a few minutes :)
Your article (and Slaughters’) brings about a variety of feelings for me. Most of all: motherhood SCARES THE CRAP OUT OF ME.
Like you, I consider myself pretty career driven. This is why I don’t see motherhood in the same way as some of my girlfriends (who are married and if they don’t have children they will soon). They see it as an exciting and wonderful event that they’re waiting to experience. I, on the other hand, am really really really REALLY worried about it. I’ve spent the majority of my life preparing for my career: refining my design skills, attending conferences, getting involved in local events, networking and then started my own business that I barely have time to sleep let alone refine a relationship and then have a child. How on earth can I possibly have a child too?
But why do I have to do everything?!
This is where your article excites me. I like the idea of changing the ideals of motherhood, not the workplace. Like someone else commented below – I totally agree with the idea of “parenthood” — it’s a wonderful idea and creates so much less stress for a mother or a father individually. In fact, just today a single mother (who loves her son and boasts about him all the time, which is adorable) reminded me how wonderful raising a child is when you have a loving father in the equation, even if you’re career oriented. “You’re a smart girl. You’ll figure it all out,” she said to me which was really encouraging (but still scary!)
Jill! Out of everyone, your experience deeply resonates with mine. I am extremely career driven and often find myself questioning why I don’t want kids right now when all my close friends do, or are trying, or already have a baby. Sometimes I find myself trying to convince myself, and sometimes I do get pangs of my biological clock ticking, but always second-guess the feeling – did I manufacture that or was it natural? In short, motherhood scares me too. It scares me in ways I’m not ready to discuss because I don’t have to words in order to not offend other women, but someday, I will write a post about this. Thank you so much for sharing your experience as a fellow-career woman.
Hi Rebecca, Thanks for blogging about this topic. I agree with T.S. only in that your post does not fully address all possible views. But as you so rightfully responded, that’s nearly impossible given the complexity of the subject. I am truly happy that you have offered a variation on the subject and wholeheartedly agree that each and every one of us deserve to voice our opinions and have them treated with respect. It’s a shame that people don’t know how to debate issues without getting a bit nasty.
I am 37 years old and have willingly made the decision not to have children. The decision wasn’t easy but every day I grow more and more at peace with my choice. While it feels like the right path for me I still struggle with the fact that almost everyone around me either wants children or already has them. As with most things in life, our opinions are skewed by our current circumstances and sometimes this gets me into a bit of trouble. I have a lot of support but there are always a few exceptions. I’ve been told that I should keep my opinions on motherhood to myself and I have also offended people by expressing my feelings about not being as excited as others about babies. It is what it is… I have come to accept that.
Being a manager I frequently hear complaints about not being paid enough, not getting enough time off, not having enough benefits, not having the desired role. At times the complaints exude entitlement. While I like your idea of accepting the need for help I think the solution is more about choice management. Life is all about choices, this topic is no different. As a society we fail at financial responsibility and parenthood is no exception. I think most people fail to plan for parenthood and then get frustrated with the limitations of their present circumstances. I don’t like that people have 10 babies and want government assistance. Recently, I also started to wonder why people without children have to contribute to the education of other people’s children through property tax. I know, that’s probably a separate debate all together about social programs but I thought it was at least worth mentioning.
I don’t think anyone can have everything though we should endeavor to give it our best shot! That said, assume you have three equally talented employees, a parent who took a leave of absence to have a baby, a single person without children who takes extended periods of time off, and a single person without children who doesn’t take extended periods of time off. All other things being equal, should their salaries be the same? I don’t think they should be. I think there are tradeoffs that need to be managed. My fiancé works is in the Air Force reserves and they have an appraisal system that allows employees to choose between higher pay and more time off. That is completely sensible to me! But no one seems to bring those types of issues to light. It always seems to be about having more. I also disagree that businesses should incur additional expense for someone’s decision to raise a family. Why can’t families plan for it? Why does everything always have to come out of someone else’s pocket? So let’s get creative and let’s be fair.
I know I got a bit sidetracked from the intent of your message but have really wanted to get some of my thoughts down in writing so thanks for listening. BTW, I have thoroughly enjoyed all of your posts since your return to the “spotlight” and I would like to add that I was heartbroken after reading your first post back when you admitted that we are not your friends! ;p
Hi Stephanie, Thanks so much for sharing your story. It makes me frustrated that you would have to deal with people that don’t accept your decision to have children. We should all be able to live how we want to.
I agree up and to a point that life is about choices. For me, I see a lot of people that are forced into situations and don’t have a choice to do something else. My mother for instance couldn’t have foreseen that my father would pass away while I was still young and that she would have to raise me by herself. Sometimes we don’t get a choice, and I think for that reason, that’s why different programs exist. And actually, that idea goes back the kinship and community argument I talk about in my post. We all need to be able to help each other instead of living in our silos and saying, well, because your lifestyle is different than mine, I can’t help you. I’m not saying that this all falls back on the government – I don’t know enough about its policies to say here nor there, but a little acceptance and understanding of where other people are at would go a long way.
I’m torn about your suggestion that those who have families should get paid less. Why can’t others just be afforded the same amount of time off? As a society, we know we work way too hard anyway. If time off wasn’t related to family, but was just a general policy, that would seem fair to me.
I also really liked your point about everyone wanting more, more, more. But I have to give everyone credit there. Ask for the moon and you may get something. Ask for nothing, and that’s what you’ll receive. I do think we constantly have to be fighting to improve our situations. That’s just what life is about. If we settled with what we have, that wouldn’t be very exciting at all.
Thanks again for your thoughtful comment. And when did I say commenters weren’t friends? I’m so confused :/ If I did, that would be crazy talk :)
Rebecca, you make some excellent points, I accept the challenge!
On why everyone can’t get more time off instead… My point is that there appears to be an imbalance in the other direction in that sometimes people with children are actually afforded special privileges that are not granted to people without children. I don’t like to peg one group against the other, but if we want to talk about equality then we should consider parents and non parents alike. I don’t think it is fair for two equally skilled employees to get paid the same when one works more than the other. So if the solution is like you said to grant everyone the same amount of time off then that definitely seems fair. The problem with current leave programs is that the people who are left behind actually end up working even more to cover for those on leave without being compensated in any way. To solve that problem businesses would have to come out of pocket to provide even more benefits for all. If that ends of improving productivity overall then that seems like a win. That said, companies definitely need to staff for that accordingly so that others aren’t impacted by extended leave of absences by their coworkers.
On kinship and community, this is tricky. You describe the story about your mother which is a truly unfortunate situation (genuinely empathetic). Those are exceptions. Instead of making policies to handle extreme cases we end up accommodating people to the point of enabling poor choices. I am more inclined to help people in need rather than people who take advantage. There’s a balance.
On asking for the moon, I agree we should shoot for the stars! That’s different than entitlement. The impression I get in those instances is that people want without giving.
Finally, I quickly scanned prior posts but couldn’t find the comment regarding friendships. I believe it was in your first or second post back but I can’t seem to view your posts chronologically. Perhaps alluding to the various new definitions for “friend” and that you wouldn’t interact socially with many of your followers. My comment of course was in jest although I do think you would be fun to hang out with for the simple fact that I enjoy your conversations! ;p
Thank you for your comments. I appreciate that you take the time to engage with your community and am grateful that you are able to do so individually.
PS, I found it. The Grief of Growth by Rebecca Thorman on April 05 under comments: “Are they really friends though? I have so many people on Facebook I would never consider my friends in real life. I don’t know, we need more words than acquaintances, friends, family now.” So I guess it wasn’t related to commenters after all!
Also, sorry for the typo in the last section. Hate that! :)
Ha! I think I was referencing people from my high school that friend me, mostly. Why do I feel obligated to accept when we never even talked then? I have no idea. And yet, it still is interesting to see what they’re up to… i.e., we need more words to describe our online relationships.
Yep, we need more words! :)
I agree that certain groups shouldn’t be afford certain privileges over others.
I’m reminded of a past conversation with a previous employer. I asked for a raise and was denied, and my boss let it slip that “well, one of your colleagues has a family, so it really wouldn’t be fair…” I immediately pounced! While I don’t think my boss was intentionally trying to be asinine or show favoritism to those with a family (indeed he was one of my favorite bosses I’ve had), I explained that whether or not someone has a family shouldn’t matter. My raise should be based on performance and the value I added to the organization. You could actually see the wheels turning in his head. He had never thought about it before! Needless to say, I got the raise :)
I gotta say, I don’t think my mother is an exception (but I don’t think she ever had help from any government program anyway). We all lead difficult lives at times, and so much of good fortune is often about luck. People that take advantage are bad seeds that attract more attention than they’re worth. They are the exceptions, not the good people that actually need the help.
I love the discussions on my blog after I post. They’re really the reason I write, because I learn so much for the conversations after the fact, and I find people don’t talk as honestly in person as they do on a post like this. Thanks for being a part of that!
Hmm, I don’t think most parents end up raising their children as a single parent. That’s what I meant by exception. I disagree that fortune is often about luck. I think we are largely in control of our lives and that there are things we can do to protect against emergencies. I see a lot of carelessness that is preventable. In fact, I have had my share of those (no one is perfect). That said, I still endeavor to do better. I sure do hope that the state of the economy over the last few years have taught us all valuable lessons about that! So yes, let’s offer help to those in need but let us also put in measures to prevent poor choices that end up costing everyone else more time and money.
Thanks again for engaging! :)
Was curious about the portion of single parents, so looked it up. Found this statistic: The U.S. Census Bureau in November, 2009, reported there are approximately 13.7 million single parents in the United States today, and those parents are responsible for raising 21.8 million children (approximately 26% of children under 21 in the U.S. today).
As far as child-free women, I was curious about that too. I found nearly one-in-five American women ends her childbearing years without having borne a child, compared with one-in-ten in the 1970s.
It seems to me all the exceptions are becoming the norm :)
Very thought-provoking indeed! Statistics are fun but I always proceed with caution. I will be interested to research this a bit further to determine the exact demographic for single parents and look into the definition of childbearing years as that could skew the results a bit!
Stephanie, on your point about equal pay for time spent, I would argue that the employee has made a choice to accept a position that is salaried. By accepting the job, they know that they are paid a salary which allows flexibility – it is one of the primary reasons people want a salaried position – and at times you take the good with the bad.
If the employee is worried about being compensated equally (based on hours worked), they could consider finding a position that pays by the hour. In this scenario, they would be paid only for what they produce/create/etc when working. I prefer this method personally as I have no problem working 50+ hours per week (even with two kids) and I do want to be compensated for every hour I work. There is financial risk – I don’t get paid when I take a day or week off – but in the end I come out ahead.
And… because I work by the hour, I like it when I get more work assigned with people taking time off for parental leave.
In the end, I am just pointing out that the benefit of being salaried is a choice and that when accepting a position that pays in this fashion you need to understand that there are negatives to that decision.
Hi Jason,
You also make an excellent point! I agree being a salaried employee is a choice but I guess to me there is a fine line between working extra hours during crunch time and working an extra job to cover for people during extended leave. Not just maternity/paternity leave either. I don’t think it is reasonable to expect the same amount of pay for doing more than what is expected of your role. At that point we are not talking about being a productive worker, we are talking about going above and beyond to cover for someone else. I’m not a 9 to 5 kind of person, I am very committed to my job but the only time I have EVER minded putting in the extra effort was to cover for people on leave based on choices of their own. BTW, this can lead to burnout and is possibly why I feel so strongly about this topic. I guess I’m a little selfish for not wanting to simply help people in that capacity out of the goodness of my heart. I still haven’t heard a strong argument for that other than just because it’s a nice thing to do. Well what would be really nice is for those people who take leave to meet us half way. Those who take leave get paid less since they are not working and those who cover for them get paid more for doing their work. Is that not fair? I am well aware that life is unfair but since we are talking about designing a better system, I’m pointing out the current flaws. The salary was just an example, my general point was about tradeoffs and compromise.
I agree with your position, actually… my personal frustration with exactly this type of behavior on the part of the organization to not reward people willing to work more is why I quit that position and now work for a firm where I am paid on an hourly basis.
My personal experience was that large organizations generally reward mediocrity and those who are willing to go above and beyond to help others are generally not compensated equally over time.
I strongly feel that the responsibility for this falls on the management team. If they continue to allow for this to happen, mediocre results is the best they can hope for as the over-achievers will move on and those that generally “settle” stay with the job.
You can choose to fight it from the inside, or you can find an organization where the management team “gets it” (they do exist) and be rewarded fairly.
Well for now I do what I can as a manager to influence policy. That said I’m a few steps removed from the decision makers and our company is very conservative/traditional. What I am finding is that defining a policy that is fair isn’t exactly easy which is why I have truly enjoyed the interactions in this thread. You are right, if I feel like giving up the fight it will be time to move on!
Thanks for your insightful comments Jason!
Rebecca,
Great post, in some ways that I think that this is how we are trying to make it work for our family, but I know that my wife and I have struggled with this continually since we decided to have kids. From my perspective, becoming a parent is the most humbling thing that you can experience. The tiny life that grows into a little person (with all of your good and bad traits) will change you forever and you will never be prepared for the first – despite reading everything available and attending every new parent class within 50 miles.
My wife – who is a very driven professional – and I both work 50+ hours a week. The only way this is possible for us is that we are asking for help – continually. Neither of us have family in the area (closest family is ~90 miles away) so we have hired a house manager/nanny for many of the daily tasks around the house. It isn’t a choice that everyone would make, or admittedly could afford unfortunately, but we both love our chosen careers and still make time to regularly drop off the kids at school, attend every play/field trip/lunch duty session assigned. The choice we have made is to ask for help on the day to day things (cleaning the house/dishes/laundry/errands/etc) and shift as much of our work as possible to times when the kids are asleep. We “sacrifice” our schedules and are fortunate enough to have the flexibility to generally make it all work for the kids.
There is no perfect parent and there is no perfect life balance in my opinion. Once you realize these things and prioritize accordingly, you do the best you can and know that it will work out in the end.
Thanks so much for the comment, Jason, and sharing your story. It’s really great to hear how two driven parents are managing both their career and family life. I love hearing about how other people make their choices and lives work for them, and I think if we make these stories more public, it will make life easier for everyone. I love your last paragraph that there is no perfect and we have to prioritize accordingly. So right on.
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I believe that women can have it all–but “all” is defined in different ways in different life stages. I started a company 10 years ago to help women return to the workforce. Though we helped many do this successfully, the vast majority still has trouble returning to much more than a retail or administrative job. For a decade I talked to employers who considered flexibility the other “F” word. They pay great lip service to the idea, but it’s not going to happen in any wholesale way. Women have to be their own flexibility advocates and career engineers–and plan careers that will allow for different types of work in different phases–full-time, part-time, consulting, entrepreneurial ventures. You could, for example, continue a marketing career over a lifetime using different work structures. Some years you might work 50 hours a week and other years 5. There are so many definitions of work–it’s not black and white–and so many definitions of successful women. I agree that in certain relentless jobs that require 24/7 attention and excessive travel something has to give. But most women don’t (by choice) aspire to be the head of a corporation or run some facet of the country. Those who can find fulfillment and success at other rungs of the ladder can find a way to make it work if they plan ahead and/or consider many different ways to work. Visit my multi-channel blog site at http://www.9livesforwomen.com!
I agree with what you said that women can have it all but she can’t do it all. I think it is true not just for women but for everyone as well. maybe that is why the saying goes no man is an island.
This is a very insightful article. Thank you for sharing.
Very valid points. The concept of a work/life balance has totally gone out the window in some career fields.
In my opinion unless your love or remotely enjoy your work and have the ability to take care of your child, working 50+ hours 5-6 days a week is not a work/life balance it’s just a fantasy.
Luckily I enjoy my job so spending long hours working isn’t a problem and is often an option not a requirement, but it’s important for jobs to step up and offer their employees and mothers more assistance.
I don’t have any children myself but having friends and family who do has definitely put things into perspective for me and made me realize just how difficult it can be raising a child and getting to work while maintaining financial/work/family sanity.
Loving the comments BTW.
It’s always great to get fresh perspectives, which help me constantly form my views on this very important topic.
Men can help, but if their own perceptions of themselves are rooted in a misogynyst upbringing, they will not want to try to do what needs to be done. Case in point: picking lice out of hair. I’ve heard every excuse imaginable from men who don’t want to do this. It overwhelms them. Mothers are overwhelmed too, but we don’t have a choice. It’s something that has to be done.
I like what you say about taking care of ourselves, Rebecca. I’m one to neglect that. But the reality is, there is a fiscal impossibility when you are talking about single mothers living close to the poverty line and needing outside help. I’m not sure we can change life for those career women. At least, I haven’t heard one sensible solution to the overworked/underpaid single mother without dependable help issue.
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